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Victor
08-23-2004, 05:17 PM
Live Local 5-10 game

The game is super loose, sometimes aggressive and will end in about a half hour. Because of this everyone is going far too far with there hands and acting quite rowdy.

I am in the small blind and look down to see black aces. There is a straddle and 6 callers when it gets to me. I raise and the BB calls and somewhere along the line someone reraises and when all is said and done its 9 way for $25 dollars each before the flop.

The flop is 2 8 9 rainbow. I bet and everyone calls

The turn is 2 8 9 [3] completing the rainbow. I bet and the big blind calls and a few others fold and a few call. 5 see a river of:

2 8 9 3 [7]

Here is where things get messy. One of the people who I thought folded was a tight weakfish player who rarely loses a showdown and generally knows whats goin on. He also talks and a lot, needling dealers and players (with good nature). Anyway, there was good deal of commotion going on and I was a little flustered due to my tenuous position. As I bet out on the river I say, “well, since Dan (not his real name) folded I know I am good.” Of course, Dan somehow has cards and calls? my bet. He flips over pocket sevens for the rivered set. Well, I am a little pissed about getting rivered but I have had worse beats and I’ve learned to take these things in stride. Anyway, I give him a little [censored] about sucking out (he had odds though to call though) and especially about not raising on the end when he hit. He just say, “well, I felt bad.”

Then I feel strange about the situation. I thought he folded. I run it in my mind but can’t be sure. I am really pissed at myself for not paying more attention. This guy is a regular, about 45-50 yrs old. He is sitting next to another regular and his girlfriend (about my age 23) was standing behind him. The guy next to him is a total a-hole and especially does not like me as I have consistently outplayed his calling ass all night. They are whispering back and forth and seem to be discussing something. Dan is conspicuously quiet and disconcerted otherwise. He always talks loud, with easygoing confidence. His girlfriend looks especially concerned. I study their faces and know that something had happened and I run things in my head but can’t figure it out.

The night ends and I cash out up about 350. Still, that hand knaws at me as I drive home. The bad beat means nothing, I just wish I had payed more attention. What happened? Why did the vibe change? Did he not fold? Did he keep his cards? Did his crony slip him a seven? Whatever it was, I missed it.

I’m driving away. F*ck it, I was up. Its over now. I go drink.

I show up the next day to play again. As, I am playing, Dan pulls me from my table. He tells me he cheated. He had folded but the dealer did not take his cards (there was a lot of commotion and the dealers are not top notch so this is no surprise). He gives me the full amount of the pot and says he has been trying to be honest since he has been in and out of AA. I am shocked and glad that to have 270 more dollars. Later, I see his girlfriend (she is a dealer at these game). She tells me that she made Dan give the money to me.

There are two main morals of the story I think:

1. ALWAYS PAY ATTENTION. No matter how crazy things get, maintain a clear focus as it will save you a pot someday.

2. All men really care about is getting laid.

Corollary: Don’t fold the turn with a pair when you are getting 25:1

Easy E
08-23-2004, 05:33 PM
Personally, I would have given him back $100 of it.

Ulysses
08-23-2004, 05:35 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I would have given him back $100 of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have asked him for the other $70.

Victor
08-23-2004, 05:40 PM
Yea, that was my first thought.

unagi
08-23-2004, 05:41 PM
giving him $100 back is like rewarding him for being dishonest in the first place. i'd say that i appreciate his choice of honesty, and just keep my eye on this fella in the future.

and el diablo is right.. it seems like either my math is wrong, or there is $60-80 missing here, according to what you've described?

gcoutu
08-23-2004, 05:45 PM
i was no math major, but it seems to me that he kept a little "ya know; for the effort"

i would say thank you for being honest and then warn him that if it ever happened again...

27offsuit
08-23-2004, 05:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I would have given him back $100 of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I would've taken the money and told him to go cheat somewhere else. The fact that others knew about it is even worse.

Who, in their right mind, would continue to play poker.......for money......with a known cheater.

Not me.

mike l.
08-23-2004, 06:43 PM
yesterday playing 40-80 at commerce there was a nice man who was getting beat. i was winning loads of chips. so i had a ton of racks in front of me and twice he bought a rack for $1000. he had crisp clean new bills that are really hard to count off, they tend to stick together. if there's ever something to hate about $100 bills it's that they are brand new.

so anyway he busts out again and buys another rack from me and i count the bills and find there are 11 there. i count again, still 11. no one is paying attention they are in the heated play of a hand. i count again, 11. so i give him a bill back. the rest of the table cathces wind of what's going on and a couple are almost angry that i was honest about it. they are shocked. "what's the matter w/ me? why didnt i just keep the extra $100?" they are saying. i dont really say anything.

sheeesh.

andyfox
08-23-2004, 07:01 PM
Gambling brings out the worst in people, doesn't it?

DOMIT
08-23-2004, 07:21 PM
At least u can feel good about yourself, that you know that you if no one else, is honest. And that matters more to me at the end of the day, than what others think, IMO.

offTopic
08-23-2004, 07:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]
the rest of the table cathces wind of what's going on and a couple are almost angry that i was honest about it. they are shocked. "what's the matter w/ me? why didnt i just keep the extra $100?" they are saying.

[/ QUOTE ]

"L. A.'s Friendliest" /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Losing all
08-23-2004, 07:35 PM
I wouldn't think twice about giving the c note back (even if he were up 5 racks on the night). I know many people wouldn't, but I can't believe they would brag about it out loud at a poker table. It's too bad that most people are scum, and proud of it at that.

durron597
08-23-2004, 09:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I would have asked him for the other $70.

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop = 9*25 = 225
Flop = 9*5 = 270
Turn = 5*10 = 320
River = 2*10 = 340

And he only gave you $270, hm.... why only get laid when you can get laid and have $ too?

mike l.
08-23-2004, 09:41 PM
"you know that you if no one else, is honest."

well in this one situation i was at least. not usually though.

eggzz
08-23-2004, 11:36 PM
Didnt Victor mention that the rakes in these Ohio casino outfits are like 25% up to $65?

Glad that worked out for you.

And to Mikelow, kudos to you, if you are cashing in racks of $1,000 that is like someone giving me $110 for a rack of my whites. So for some of you lower limit players, who is going to pocket ten bucks offa some guy thats likely going to donate it back to the table in due time?

mike l.
08-24-2004, 12:42 AM
"And to Mikelow, kudos to you"

just for the record, im mike l.

mike low is a different poster. he's a nice guy i met him the other night.

exist
08-24-2004, 01:45 AM
this is besides any moral points of your post but i believe you misplayed this hand. it was necessary to make the field face more than one bet at a time. this might mean playing quite passively on the flop in order to check raise someone's turn bet.

Bob Moss
08-24-2004, 02:05 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Who, in their right mind, would continue to play poker.......for money......with a known cheater.

Not me.

[/ QUOTE ]

The data indicate that Sid doubles his losses when cheating. With his current losses in the Monday night game totaling $20,000 per year, his cheating costs him about $10,000 per year.

J_V
08-24-2004, 03:52 AM
[ QUOTE ]
mike low is a different poster. he's a nice guy i met him the other night.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell of a poker player too.

J_V
08-24-2004, 03:56 AM
I'm surprised, I see you as being very honest and of good moral fiber. If I lost my wallet, and mike l. found it, I like my chances of getting it back. If Diablo found it, my only chance would be to start cancelling credit cards.

Ulysses
08-24-2004, 03:59 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised, I see you as being very honest and of good moral fiber. If I lost my wallet, and mike l. found it, I like my chances of getting it back. If Diablo found it, my only chance would be to start cancelling credit cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's crap. Given the choices you make when it comes to clothing, I highly doubt I would like the style of your wallet, so I'd very likely give the wallet back.

tolbiny
08-24-2004, 12:30 PM
without knowing table conditions/reads on other players- exactly how many people are in the pot you really cant make that assertion.

tolbiny
08-24-2004, 12:34 PM
Last night i was at a home game (Victor was there at a different table) and i got my seat as a new table started up. In the process of giving the table chips he gave me my $300 worth without takeing my money. he left the room almost immediately- when he came back in i walked over , gave him the 300 and that was that.
This sh*t should be routine

eggzz
08-24-2004, 10:23 PM
Gotcha, answered too fast, but kudos to you all the same.