KK vs total Maniac + 2

Let me preface this post with a description of the maniac - he's a total, utter maniac at most times. One time in the past he raised preflop (whether open-raising or 3 betting) 24 hands in a row. 4 of those hands he went to the showdown and declard "8-high". I'm not kidding. So we're sitting down starting the second 10-20 table this past Sunday and he (I'll call him Glen, but that's not his real name) sits down with a couple of black chips (that he didn't cash in from the previous night), then gets up to go to the bathroom.


Everyone else immediately comments on how our game just turned into a 20-40 game or more and that there wouldn't be a lack of action. We also comment on how calling his raise is really the same as a call and 3-betting him is really just like a raise.


First hand of the game, I'm in the small blind, Glen is in 4 seats to my left. He raises, someone 3 bets, caps etc (I have J4 and muck). Eventually he shows down 1 pair, which loses.


Next hand, I'm on the button and get red Kings. UTG folds, Glen raises, next 2 fold, next two call the raise (which indicates to me that they have limping hands since they were among the 3-bet conversation before the table started), next folds, I 3 bet, blinds fold, he caps it (4 bets is cap where I play), all of us call.


Flop is Kc 5c 3x (the 3 is either heart or diamond, can't remember, but it's not important).


Glen bets out, other 2 middle position players call, I raise, Glen 3 bets, other 2 call both bets. It's hard for me to put them on hands since they've called two bets cold several times already after I've shown strength, but at the same time, they know that I know Glen very likely has nothing and that they've merely called his raise (given the earlier conversation, it wouldn't take anything other than a normal limping hand to call his raises). I cap it, they all call. At this point, the other 2 players have to know I have a hand and I put them (collectively) on AA-TT (excluding KK obviously), KA - K2, smaller sets, and flush draws, maybe possibly A2-A5. Any comments here would be welcome...


Turn leaves the board: Kc 5c 3x 8c


Exactly what I didn't want, the flush card. Glen bets out again, but I can't put him on the flush because he'll bet any scare card a good portion of the time. Other 2 call. At this point, since they both called, in my mind I eliminated QQ, JJ and other not-set pocket pairs other than AA. AK with possible Ac, 55, 33, Axclubs, or a smaller flush were all possibilities for the other 2. I was pretty sure I was in second place and that given the size of the pot (almost 17 BB pre-turn), I would not be able to push smaller flushes out of the pot with a raise, so I just call.


River is 5h, giving me the second nuts. Glen bets, 2 others call, I raise, Glen calls, 1 other calls, 1 mucks. As he calls, Glen says "I can beat Aces!" I flip up my Kings and he says "..but I'm not that big" and mucks. Other guy who called showed Ac Ks before mucking. Glen quickly heads for the ATM/Blackjack tables.


What would other people have done in this hand or comments on my thought process?


Dante

Considering that a raise on the turn will probably get called in three spots, you would have to be awful sure you don't have the best hand to make it wrong.

well you probably have what, around 8 outs if youre behind? kind of like raising on the flop with a flush draw and 2 opponents.


brad

If someone does have the flush, I have 10 outs to beat it (case King for quads, plus 3 of each of the other board cards for the top full boat).

yes, well, with 3 other players you have to figure some of those cards are in the other players hands.


brad

I figured at the time it was ~75% likely that someone had the flush on the turn based on the hand groups I had put people on and the betting.

It's almost impossible 2 misplay this hand as you can't really make any mistakes...


Before the flop raise as often as you can, on the flop with two guys trapped between you and the maniac raise as often as possible.


When neither of the players in the middle raise the maniac on the turn raise the turn... if you do get re-raised call or cap... it's inconsequential as you have plenty of outs and are only costing yourself a small fraction of a bet even if you are behind.


On the river raise as often as possible...


This hand requires no thinking at all the only decision at all is on the turn, and not raising is a huge disaster if you are leading and a tiny mistake if you are behind...


Save the thinking and thought processing for hands that require it this one can be played with your eyes closed and two hands tied behind your chips.


seanEmac