ODD PLAY--has this happened to anyone else before?

I've never had this happen to me before:


I raise UTG with QQ. 2 late position callers and the BB call. Flop 3-5-8. I bet, 2 late callers fold and BB calls. Turn 2. The BB says to me, "you're not winning". Hmm, what to make of this? He hasn't said anything to me the entire day so far. Haven't seen him before, either. Oh well, I decide to ignore his comment and bet out. He calls. River 5. He says, "Check my full house" Now what?

Well, I decided to succumb to his games and just said to him, "Show me it". He flips over pocket 3s for a garbage full house after he flopped a set.

What do you guys think of this? Why on earth would he give away the strength of his hand and cost himself like 3 or 4 big bets? He doesn't know me, and would have no reason to want to save me money or not maximize his profits. Furthermore, he doesn't have to worry about losing because he knows I don't have any of the board. After this hand, he didn't say another word to me the rest of the day. This truly was odd. I'd love to hear from all of you:

1.) why he would do this?

2.) what would you have done?


Thanks in advance for the input,

ML

I suspect he was trying to be tricky, hoping you wouldn't believe him. And since you did believe him he could justify his stupidity by thinking he might be able to bluff you out on a future hand by using the same tactics.


Either that or he enjoys power-tripping more than profits. Either way the man's a fool.


Best of luck to you, Billy (LTL)

This is now the second post today I've seen along these lines (the other was the "check my straight" post). It seems that wherever you play, this must not be common practice. I only have 50 hours of live experience in my life, but I've heard these lines innumerable times (check my two pair... check my boat... I have a set) and I'd say about 80% of the time when they show down, they are telling the truth. Why do they say things like this? I assume it's because they aren't serious about poker and just want to play with your head a little. If you pay them off after they say that and show down the winner, they then get to say, "I told you I had two pair." That makes their poker experience more enjoyable. I played one guy in New Orleans who insisted on showing at least one of his cards (it was a split Omaha/Holdem game) whenever he was heads-up with someone.


For me, I haven't learned to make productive use of the additional information that these kinds of comments give me yet, so I just ignore them and pretend they haven't said them. Though, if anything, it makes me marginally more likely to slow down if they say they have a hand that beats me because they are indeed telling the truth by far the majority of the time, at least in my experience.

This post might have been a good one for the new psychology forum. The guy is trying to meet his emotional needs by making this play. It makes no sense logically. He is seeking approval or something. I would probably give him approval so he would keep playing in such a way as to get my approval. And it's sort of sad, so what are you going to do, run him down for having a screwed up head? I'd probably say, "Wow, you had me beat to death." People make a lot of odd plays.

Hi boltu43. Yup, I have had these comments made to me in heads up play as well. Just yesterday in a 20-40 game I got heads up with a guy who said "I have you this time" and "I definately have the best hand- I will raise you and see if you believe me"! SO...of course, I called with my full house and yes, he had me beat with a bigger full house. I like HDPM's analysis....some bizarre need to show superiority or some weak ego need overrides the desire to make money with some of these guys. There are some very good players who use these verbal tactics as a weapon, (e.g., A. Slim is known for his constant chatter) but they are few and far between. And....the talkers like Slim use the tactic to GAIN information about a player, not to give it away!. As to what I would do vs. these guys, I would simply play my hand as dictated by its strength. Just because someone tells you the truth on one hand doesn't mean he would continue to do that throughout the game. Babe

I, too, have seen this done, and I, too, have done this to other players. But before I get laughed out of the forum, I'm going to posit a hypothesis and let my learned colleagues make of it what they will.


Hypothesis: beyond schoolyard headgames, the purpose of deliberately revealing the strength of your hand on the river is to encourage future bets.


Rationale: no one likes getting beat. It takes the wind out of your sails. It puts people out of the "gamboh!" mood, more often than not. (NB we are not talking about potential steamers.) And no one likes a sore winner, e.g., "Ha! I had your overpair whipped on the turn!"


However, when you deliberately induce an opponent to SAVE a losing bet, you make your opponent happy. A happy friendly opponent is less likely to want to "take shots" at you. More importantly, they are MORE likely to give friendly calls in future pots when you are a favorite but not a strong favorite, because you have done them a courtesy in the past and they feel like they are only returning the courtesy.


A few corollary points:

1) Generally, this play is done when it is unlikely that you'll be called in the first place. So they were going to save that bet anyway, in all likelihood. But your observation makes them feel justified.

2) This play doesn't work against total fish. Fish will feel like you're trying to bluff them then and there and will call --and then not call bets against you in future pots. (No one said fish thinking was logical...)

3) It also doesn't work against skilled players. Skilled players will read you for setting up future bluffs and play accordingly.

4) When it does work, it works over several hands, not just one. It's like a slot machine payout: intermittent random rewards lock in the behavior. Your opponent will give call after call when you are ahead (but not overwhelmingly so), as long as once in a blue moon you warn them of a legitimate monster.


I think the best example of this is play is Axs and flopping top pair and a flush draw, hitting the kicker on the turn and the flush on the river. When you announce this the whole way, you make someone who flopped two pair happy, because they no longer feel guilt about folding the river. They will reward you for being friendly by calling future bets, because if you had a monster, then surely you would tell them in the spirit of good gaming.


This is only a hypothesis, it is neither proven nor disproven at this point. But I think that if it is true, it has tremendous application in certain situations.

Never listen to a poker player. They are lying even when they tell the truth.


Vince

...you've all given me a lot to think about. I can understand making that kind of comment to mess with my head and set up future plays, but he didn't say a word the rest of the day. I also understand the chatterers who try to get into people's head (Armarillo Slim was mentioned), but he wasn't that type either. Very odd to say the least. Anyway, Thanks again all...


ML