Multi-tabling, how avoid being bluffed out or become calling-station? [Archive]

View Full Version : Multi-tabling, how avoid being bluffed out or become calling-station?

House-Lion

08-22-2004, 10:10 AM

I think I have some general problem bleeding chips.

I have a problem believing in post-flop-raises from other players since there are so many maniacs or WPT-watchers on Party and before getting a read on a player I often asume they try to bluff me out.

Sometimes when the board makes a pair or flush or str-combo on the turn or river I get raised or bet into and this makes play become tricky and expensive, both in loosing bets when I should raise and when loosing when I was behind.

I use poker-tracker, so I am not getting all the reads until after the session, but I try to take notes on players at the tables when I see something wild or fishy and what kind of hole-cards they limp or cold-call with from various positions.

I also try to note down anyone making a move at some point.

Also many solid players do a lot of semi-bluffing or they simply have a read on my play and act accordingly.

How do you solve or cope with the problems of pursuing a bluff or fold a second best hand when multi-tabling without a good read yet?

How many tables do you considder feasible? I am trying to learn to play 6 now but it seems like I have trouble with so many decissions in so short time.

A friend of mine has no trouble playing 8 6-max-tables but he is about to become a online-poker expert at the higher stakes.

When multi-tabling, do you tighten up considderable and let go of many marginal hands from the earlier and middle-position and even late position to save time and trouble?

My reads from poker-tracker indicates that many of the multi-tabling rocks and regulars on party have a very low vp$ip like down to 11% or lower.

House-Lion

08-22-2004, 11:08 AM

I'll add a few hands to clarify

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, MP2 folds, CO raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.33 SB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.16 BB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.16 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.16 BB
Main Pot: 9.16 BB, between Hero and CO.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB bets, Hero folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls.

River: (6 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 raises, SB calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB
Main Pot: 10 BB, between SB and UTG+1.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB 3-bets, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls, Hero caps, SB calls, BB calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (17 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, MP3 folds, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (10 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (16 BB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 19 BB
Main Pot: 19 BB, between Hero, SB and BB.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $3.
UTG folds, MP1 (poster) checks, MP2 calls, Hero raises, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (6.16 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, MP2 raises, Hero calls, Button calls.

River: (12.16 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 12.16 BB
Main Pot: 12.16 BB, between MP2, Hero and Button.

House-Lion

08-23-2004, 02:24 AM

bump!

balkii

08-23-2004, 02:35 AM

play less tables

bisonbison

08-23-2004, 02:37 AM

If you are having trouble playing X number of tables at Y limit, either play less than X or move down from Y. I've been 4-tabling 3/6 for about a month now and I feel fine doing that, but I've been 4-tabling since .5/1.

Were you successful at 2/4 multitabling? Were you successful at 3/6 singletabling? How long have you been multitabling? Are you aware of ways to keep up with opponent stats in the middle of sessions?

In short, why are you multitabling if it's causing you problems?

3000 posts

House-Lion

08-23-2004, 02:53 AM

I were successfull at 2/4 with 4 tables and I think I were it on 3/6 with 5 tables, so I am pretty sure 4 tables is no problem.

I have found out that 3/6 is very much more aggressive than 2/4 and this comes from both solid players and more LAGs and generallly less weak players. Problem is to catch the LAGs and respect the weak players raises and also not be caught by unnessessary traps and raises.

[ QUOTE ]
Are you aware of ways to keep up with opponent stats in the middle of sessions?

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you have some tips on this issue?

If I see a LAG or someone else come to river with a dubious holding I try to note that down, or if they try to make a bluff against me. I also try to note the calling-stations who will call the river with a small pocket-pair.

balkii

08-23-2004, 02:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
Are you aware of ways to keep up with opponent stats in the middle of sessions?

Do you have some tips on this issue?

[/ QUOTE ]

Use PT game-time windows, they're great. I run 4 tables on 1 monitor and 4 game-time windows on the other. Request HHs every 14 minutes and import them.

Inthacup

08-23-2004, 03:58 AM

For starters don't open limp UTG+2 with QJ unless the table is especially loose passive, which this one does not appear to be.

Flop: (17 SB) T, Q, 5 (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, MP3 folds, Hero calls, SB calls.

Raise the flop. With that kind of action preflop, you need to ram and jam early to charge any draws.

It seems like these are mistakes you would make regardless of whether you're playing 1 table or 4. I don't see how cutting back on the tables is going to help.
Cup

House-Lion

08-23-2004, 04:39 AM

Ok, so maybe I should scrap some openinghands from early position, specially considdering the 3/6-tables becomes awfully tight during Euro-day-time.

Flop: (17 SB) T, Q, 5 (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, MP3 folds, Hero calls, SB calls.
I didnt think anyone were going anywhere to a raise since it was capped pre-flop so I wanted to raise the turn instead to thin out the field. Maybe this line of thought is wrong?

You say I should charge the draws, and that aspect I can understand, but I do not want the draws to come to the river and I cant get them to fold post flop, or can I?

JTG51

08-23-2004, 05:09 AM

Folding QJs in EP is way too tight.

Inthacup

08-23-2004, 11:08 AM

Are you making this as a blanket statement in any table conditions?