Question: Catching a big hand after a big raise

[m2smith2]

This seems to happen all the time – I’ll catch A/K after a hand when I made a big raise and won the pot with no showdown. I tend to limp. My thought is that there is much less fold equity. Even if I made the previous raise with cause, no one knows that because I didn’t show the hand down. What’s more, someone may be steaming come over the top with a small pair where I’m a slight dog and don’t want to call a re-raise.

Should I play it as per normal and put in a normal size raise, or am I correct in thinking that the hand has less fold equity, and therefore less value?

[lastchance]

I'd make the raise. Gives me a loose-aggresive type table image, and I like that. Plus, with a hand like AK, I think I have the best hand, and I want money in the pot. Although, you could go for a limp-reraise...

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]

Should I play [AK] as per normal and put in a normal size raise, or am I correct in thinking that the hand has less fold equity, and therefore less value?

[/ QUOTE ]
Why would lowering the chance of a fold decrease the value of AK? It may decrease the value of marginal raising hands like KJ or 77, but AK is much better. Raises with marginal hands are semi-bluffs: They require folding equity to be worthwhile. Raises with premium hands are value bets: They will be ahead when called.

The additional calls you get when your opponents think you are loose are not with premium hands. They are calls with marginal hands. AK is fine against everything except AA, KK, and AK, and your opponents would get involved with these anyway. Most of the extra calls are with hands AK dominates like KQ or A9. After I pick up the blinds a couple of times in a row with preflop raises, I love getting AK, since I know my raise has a much greater chance of getting called by a hand that is far behind. However, I'll limp or fold instead of raising with a marginal hand.

[m2smith2]

In tournaments I put a lot of value on fold equity. Sure, I'm ahead pre-flop, and I'll get loose calls which are +EV, but the more callers the higher the probability that someone will hit, and in a tournament I care less about "long run EV."

[pzhon]

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...I'll get loose calls which are +EV, but the more callers the higher the probability that someone will hit, and in a tournament I care less about "long run EV."

[/ QUOTE ]
It's your prerogative to play badly, but then why ask questions here?

[m2smith2]

You think positive EV is the only thing worth pursuing?

[pzhon]

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You think positive EV is the only thing worth pursuing?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, if EV is defined correctly. I suppose you are going to tell me about the nonlinearity of chip value. Instead of doing that, why don't you read some of my messages involving chip value nonlinearity?

Re: Fold AA preflop here? Bubble situation... (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=930 711&Forum=,,All_Forums,,&Words=&Searchpage=1&Limit =25&Main=927284&Search=true&where=&Name=9148&dater ange=&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bo dyprev=#Post930711)

Re: 1-table Tournament Expectation Question (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=probability&Number=905 291&Forum=,,,All_Forums,,,&Words=&Searchpage=2&Lim it=25&Main=903844&Search=true&where=&Name=9148&dat erange=&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=& bodyprev=#Post905291)

Re: Bubbling (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=745 812&Forum=,,,,,,,,,,All_Forums,,,,,,,,,,&Words=&Se archpage=9&Limit=25&Main=741560&Search=true&where= &Name=9148&daterange=&newerval=&newertype=&olderva l=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post745812)

Re: Many tourneys vs. cash game (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=tourn&Number=593630&Fo rum=,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,All_Forums,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,&Wor ds=&Searchpage=15&Limit=25&Main=592443&Search=true &where=&Name=9148&daterange=&newerval=&newertype=& olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post593630)

If you are so averse to letting other people in the pot, why wouldn't you want to raise with AK? Do you think limping will mean fewer people see the flop? Or do you want to fold AK preflop?

[m2smith2]

My question had to do with fold equity. If you think, due to a particular situation, that raising will not narrow the field then there is less value in doing it. If someone will call your raise with a small pocket pair, for example, then they are gaining EV since they’re ahead. Plus, if you limp it’s easier to get away from when the flop misses you. And, if it hits it may be well hidden.

Thanks for the links.

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
My question had to do with fold equity. If you think, due to a particular situation, that raising will not narrow the field then there is less value in doing it.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you think so, why ask?

What you lose in folding equity is more than made up for by the bad call equity. There is more to poker than getting people to give you the pot right now.