I'm an addict... no really (long)

[AleoMagus]

400 Posts... yay

now I'm an addict like all those guys who registered on this forum two months ago.

Anyways, that's really not the point of this post and I'm actually feeling pretty sombre writing it. The thing is, I've been pondering some things for days now and this is as good a place as any to share.

I've been running bad lately. Not terribly bad, but not up to what I'd consider my usual expectation. More than this, it has been going on for over 200 sngs now. The crappy part is that a few hundred before that I really was starting to think I had SNGs completely nailed down. I was getting over 40% ROI at the 30+3 over 200 and decided that it was time I stop playing the low limits once and for all. I hit the 50+5 but before I did, I cashed off a significant portion of my winnings to buy a plane ticket for the Canadian Championships in Oct. I also set aside $550 for the buy-in to the main event. Stupid to take money off right when I'm moving up. Still, I had about 30 buy-ins for the $55 game leftover and was confident.

SO I started to run bad. Not terribly bad, but not making anything. After a while I was getting bored and it was starting to get on my nerves.

I should also mention here that I've been writing a lot about sngs on my own lately and it was starting to make me question what I really knew. Not a lot at first, but slowly doubt was creeping in.

I played a lot of multis also because I thought I could use the practice and no placings there either. Bankroll is dwindling.

So I play a couple $109 tourneys one night which don't go well. Tilt and boredom I guess. Wanna hear about the bad beats? I drop back down to $33 SNGs to get focused again

100 tourneys and I'm making a little back, but my ITM is still pretty low. A lot of 1sts and 4ths. No dig deal, except I'm stressing too much about so many busts. I have streaks of 10, 8, and 11 OTM three times in this series. Lots of Ring Limit on the side which is going nowhere

I buy into a few more multis before I give up on that. Maybe the Cdn Championship is not such a good idea... (I don't care what you think about that - I'm playing)

Which brings me to the past couple weeks.

About 100 SNGs - which is WAY more than I ever play in a two week period. All multitabling

NEGATIVE ROI. In top 4, I am finishing 4th lots more than 25%

When finally, I finish 4th 7 times in a row.

Some miserable beats running into big hands and a lot of self induced destruction in the last few. The seventh SNG I have AA and... whatever... you don't care about that. I got 4th

Which brings me to the real point of this post. My Real concern after all this.

I'm normally VERY cool when it comes to losing. I never berate players and I never flinch or hit things or any of that. This time I picked up an empty pop can and I threw it across the room. This felt good

I stood up and I was suddenly filled with a kind of anger I have not felt in YEARS. I picked up my bokken (a hardwood katana I use for Kendo and Aikido) and I swung at the air. I hit the corner of a bookshelf in the room. This also felt good. So I hit it again this time and I meant to.

And so on...

When I was done, I had pulled down the bookshelf, thrown my computer chair across the room and beaten a hole into a nearby table.

It did feel good, but it was scary stuff.

How does one play 2000 sngs with a 30% ROI and suddenly run negative over a couple hundred sngs? Geez, as if it wasn't obvious, this is why I've been a bit preoccupied with these stats lately.

It almost makes it worse when I see these funny posts about bad swings and they are all measured in series of 10 or 20. No offense guys, but you have no idea. Take pride that you have no idea because I'm sure mine was as much self induced as anything. And there were beats...

So where am I at now?

Vacation time. The next time I play poker it will be in Edmonton in Oct for (at least) the Main event and hopefully the Limit event as well.

Besides, I have other things I need to focus on for a while. I spend WAY too much time thinking about this game lately and it shows. The last time I took a while off I came back swinging in a BIG way. Those were different circumstances, but clearly I have a lot to learn about emotional control in this game and the break will do me good. I'm gonna force myself to not look at this forum much either. I waste hours every day here lately.

Lets face it. The fact that I work (actually work, I mean) only two days a week might have something to do with all this. I'm getting stressed again and I should have learned my lesson the first time I tried to make poker a significant source of income.

SIGH

There. If you sat and read all that, I feel embarrased.

But there it is anyways.
My 400th post for which I truly feel like an addict.

Regards
Brad S

[parappa]

Don't have anything poker-related to tell you, your game's better than mine.

I'm sure you've done this, but have you gone back through your last couple hundred sngs in poker tracker to see if you're leaking anywhere?

I'm playing 10+1s and feeling pretty good about it, but if I lost more than about 15 buy-ins at 10s, I'd drop back to 5s until I started winning again. I know you do a lot more different levels than I do, and that you're trying to get over the low-limit hump, but that's what I'd do.

Also, multitabling. I find that the more games I'm playing at once the less it bothers me--the variation keeps me sane, and I don't put numbers into your spreadsheet until after I've played 20, to make it a bit more dispassionate.

I'm sure I haven't said anything you haven't already tried. Oh, and don't tear up your house--that's what sleazy bars and holiday inns are for /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[mackthefork]

Chill out man, a break sounds like a really good idea, though six weeks sounds a long one (up to you). After all your posts about how winning players can hit runs of 100 with 0% or even -EV I would have expected you to be able to cope with this better than most, however this game is the most frustrating game in the universe (no doubt, the truth is out there). I myself had a run of about 70 sngs with 0% ROI and i haven't done even 1000 of them yet, I found some of your posts a source of comfort.

For anyone playing this game professionally or semi-professionally I admire your attempts but I doubt even the strongest will can withstand the self doubt which this game creates in us all from time to time. I will never play this game with money as my primary aim, but in my opinion you all need to remember that you need to be enjoying playing or else this [censored] can happen to anyone of you, no offence, hopefully none taken.

Regards and best wishes Mack

[stupidsucker]

I think I may be able to help...

To start off, I was excited to read about your failure, and your anger and frustration... Dont get me wrong, I dont wish that upon anyone.

BUT

my point is valid here. I respect you very much as a poster, and player. It thrills me to no end that I am not alone. I am on my second keyboard and mouse set because of losing my temper. Once early in my poker career I threw a chair into a window.

Losing your temper and throwing a bit of a tantrum is normal. I dont recomend it because its not good for your blood pressure. Once I got just a little mad, and I pounded my fist on the desk. This knocked a can of soda over and on to my keyboard.. That upset me even more... Then as I was ranting and raving I timed out of a hand that I had already invested money in, and had a great hand, I would have won a lot of money (playing 30-60) This put me through the roof, I tossed the half full can of soda out the door and into the kitchen. I had time to think about the stupid thing I did as I cleaned up the mess.

I am getting somewhere with this. You have zero reason to doubt your poker. If you do start doubting yourself then this is when it affects your game. Just this month I started out with a straight shot DOWN down down!! I had just started playing the 50s and they were killing me! I lost over a thousand dollars. I started second guessing myself. I took a couple days off, I bothered a few people with bad beat stories the works.

Poker streaks are very real, and very much a part of the game you have to overcome. Part of the skill in being a poker player is the mental toughness it takes to deal with the pain that comes with streaks. It didnt take long before I was out of the red and well into the positive, and you will find yout peace as well.

Relax, play a few of the 10s . Make sure you are set with a plan. Make sure your bankroll is not in jeopardy, and chose the proper game for yourself. All of us here at 2+2 have faith in you. Most all of us have become better players for you having been a part of this forum.

Summary.. Its ok to get mad, but dont let it affect your game. Bad streaks happen to everyone, and at the worst possible times. You will get through it. DO what ya gotta do.

[SixgunSam]

Aleo, you're obviously a talented player and your posts in this section have helped my game tremendously. I've got several of your posts bookmarked and I've searched through the archives to find your old threads, so that should tell you something. I'm sure you're just suffering some burn-out and maybe a short vacation from poker will get you back on track. Good luck and stay positive!

[codewarrior]

I don't know why, but your post made me feel warm inside. The voices in my head started chanting "One of us! One of us!"

I'm not alone!

You describe almost verbatum what has been happening to me of late. This too, shall pass.

[t_perkin]

Hehe - you registered here a week before I did /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I wouldn't say that smashing your house up is normal. This is something to be pretty worried about if you ask me.
If you can't control your emotions when you are playing then you need to have a break.
If you can't take a break then you are addicted and you should seek help. So I hope your 6 week break goes trouble free. I am sure it will.
I would try and stay away from the forum during the break as well. I think it is best to get away from thinking about poker, not just playing.

Anyway good luck, I am sure you will return to form.

Tim

p.s.: I will have a crack at that simulator this afternoon. Been busy sorry!

[Robert Ezzo]

Sounds to me like you need the break. From a completely outside point of view, it sounds like you did a few too many things at once - cashing out winnings simultaneously with moving up to a new tournament level, and when things didn't go to plan, you started chasing your losses - thinking that you could get back into the groove. By the time you shifted back to the 30's, you were no longer confident in your abilities.

I'm not sure 6 weeks is necessary, but you definitely need a "poker break" for a bit - you're off on the mental aspect of the game beyond any doubt. I've taken these forced breaks several times over the past year, when I knew my game was starting to slip (making huge mistakes out of frustration or lack of confidence). They help enormously.

[Irieguy]

Dude, thank you for the post. I've played 500 SNG's both PLO-8 and NLHE with an ITM of 42% and ROI of 25% (PLO) and 31% (NLHE). I had several bad streaks of 9-12 OTMs in a row, so I felt like I knew how bad it could get... but still, my bankroll was up to 3K, and I was pretty sure I was handling the swings pretty well.

So I cashed out and moved up to the 55's. Had a 50% ITM and 45% ROI after my first 20 and things were going smashingly. Then "IT" happened. So I played some 100's to make a quick recovery, but "IT" followed me there. The beats... my dear god, the beats. So I played a bunch of $50-$100 multis and "IT" came along and helped me bust out of all of them in the first few levels.

Now I'm screaming the f-word at my computer and scanning the room for something I can break. My wife's not happy with my behavior and stops sitting with me in the office, doing other things while I play.

Somehow I get a grip, conserve a little bankroll, stop playing multis and big SNGs, and move back down to the $33's. I took a huge break from poker (14 hours), and regrouped. But I still felt like a giant assclown... particularly because my best friend and poker confidante continues to beat the living hell out of the $33's, while never having a run of even 25 SNG's with an ROI less than 25%. Then I read your post and now I'm fine.

Thank you, Aleo.

Play the right way,
Irieguy

[LinusKS]

I don't know that I have anything helpful to say, since I think you're probably both smarter and a better poker player than I am.

But I've got upwards of 1400 sngs recorded now - 500 on paper, and another 900 on PT (much less than what you have, I know). And I know the swings can be brutal.

When you're running good, it seems like you can't do wrong. Your bluffs go through, your TPTK's are good, and you never seem to be involved in the big suck-outs.

When you're running bad, your big pairs go down to bigger ones, your pretty-good-hands get check-raised all-in, and the river seems to kill you every damn time.

Anyway, if you're arguing luck - variance - plays a bigger role in sng results than many people realize, I'm on your side. I don't have your math skills, but I think 100-200, even 300 game averages can be way off true long-term performance.

In fact, I'd go so far as to suggest that 40% ROI is probably above the upper end of what's sustainable. If that's true, you may be the victim of an overdue correction.

Bottom line, if you've got 1000 sng's with a 40% ROI, that pretty much guarantees you're a winning player. Your luck will change.

Edit: I misread your post. Aleo, if you've got 2000 sng's with a 30% ROI, I figure that represents your true average. You'll get back there.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
I took a huge break from poker (14 hours)

[/ QUOTE ]

hahahahaha this totally sounds like me.

[AA suited]

Aleo,

your post reassures me and scares me at the same time. it reassures me that even a good player can have a long dry spell. (unless of course you were playing differently than usual. ie: tilt???)

it scares me that u went on rage and threw furniture around. in your SnG guide, the last sentance is:

"Anytime you get a bad beat, simply say "nh" or "gg" as the case may be."

That last sentance alone was probably the best advice i've gotten in this game. it reminds me that it's a game. i'm playing with $ i can afford to lose. this is just entertainment.

i hope everything gets better for you...

[poboy]

I know this won't make you feel any better, but your post has made me feel a lot better. I've been on a bad run myself and have started to question whether it's my game or bad luck. When I see that a player of your skill level can have a bad run just as well as I can, it helps to ease the self-doubt. I can't say that I've smashed anything up, but many sleepless nights wondering what the hell I'm doing wrong. I agree a break is probably a good idea, though Oct. is a long ways off. I typically take 2-3 days off when I feel I've reached my boiling point. Anyhow I know you'll break out of it, just keep your head up. I've learned more about playing SNG's from your posts than anywhere else, so I do hope you pop in from time to time with some wisdom for the rooks like myself.

[Greeksquared]

You also forgot to mention in that actually writing down your feelings in that post can make you feel better too. Probably better than actually destroying things. Maybe it would be good if you just started hand writing some of these thoughts and feelings into a journal...you don't have to keep anything you write...you can trash it if you want. Just a simple idea to keep your cool.

I also have a similar story...i wrote a similar but less eloquent post a couple months ago. I had no idea why i was losing...I had never had a losing streak in poker and had quickly made over 2 grand in a 2 months. Then i found myself where you were and couldnt win anything...I lost a thousand dollars and blamed to me what was seemingly the absolute worst luck that any human could sustain. I couldn't handle the losing and was afraid of losing everything....SO I STOPPED PLAYING....for about 6 weeks. It was the best thing that I could have done. When I started up again I won 600 dollars the first night I played. I have stopped again..so that I can concentrate on school(poker takes up so much time its ridiculous).

Anyways hope that helps. You could also try some of the other poker sites that give you free money for joining.

[m2smith2]

That’s all I can say. Based on your description, I don’t think it’s likely that you’re a bad player – I think it’s more likely you’re on a bad run. And, that happens – that’s poker. Controlling your emotions is one of the toughest aspects of poker (I’d say the toughest. By comparison, the math and reading opponents is easy). Read TPOP and get control. Throwing the can may feel good, but it’s not a good sign.

P.S. I play at a local place with a hole in the wall, put there by the fist of someone suffering a bad beat. Not healthy.

[golden goose]

Pretty funny, I just recently posted a similar problem i was having. Guess 2+2 can also double as a leather couch of sorts. Im getting close to a thousand singles.THese things happen, and sound like you know it too. It will get better or you'll go broke. Either way the problem will be solved.

Im rooting for it to get better. /images/graemlins/wink.gif