The "System" at the WSOP.

[over_c]

I was watching some moron try to use Sklansky's System at a Sit n Go and I started wondering something. If anyone was going to use the system at the WSOP, I thought it would be this year since there were so many entries. Did anyone happen to notice or hear of anyone using the System this year? Did anyone try it themselves? If so, how did it go?

[Nottom]

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If anyone was going to use the system at the WSOP, I thought it would be this year since there were so many entries. Did anyone happen to notice or hear of anyone using the System this year

[/ QUOTE ]

The system would be an utter failure at the WSOP becasue it relies on players making a smart laydown when you raise. With so many amatures in the field you are eventually gonn arun into someone who calls you with TT or AQ or soemthing that they aren't "supposed" to call with.

Its really designed to use against a field of pros that don't want to put all their money in preflop.

If you were at a table full of Phil Helmuth for example, it would work great because hes too good a player to simply put all his chips in as a 4.5-1 favorite preflop.

[over_c]

You're right about the System not working as well at this tournament. I thought someone would be likely to try it because with a field that large and many satellite qualifiers might mean that someone in the tournament would not trust their poker skills enough and would want to try something that might give them a better edge than their own poker talents.

[Daliman]

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If you were at a table full of Phil Helmuth for example, it would work great because hes too good a player to simply put all his chips in as a 4.5-1 favorite preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true. A year or two ago, i posed the question to the probability forum, stating what if I were In a hand With Phil Hellmuth early in the tourney, had a similar average sized chip stack as him, and I went all in against him after he has reraised me to 20% of my stack, showed him i had 67 suited, and told him he has a 25% chance of being KO'd this hand with most nay holding, even aces, so he should fold. Bruce Z. came back with some incredibly high level mathematical analysis based on a few main factors, essentially saying ANY player would be a fool to pass up a straight 2-1 proposition in a situation like that. You statement is saying that he would never call all his chips in with aces, which are usually between a 3-1 and 4.25-1 favorite.

[Michael Davis]

Nottom is referencing a specific hand that Hellmuth wrote about where he claimed that he knew his opponent had a lower pocket pair but folded QQ anyways.

Perhaps he is learning from his big mistake against Jason Lester in the 2003 WSOP. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

-Michael

[BruceZ]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If you were at a table full of Phil Helmuth for example, it would work great because hes too good a player to simply put all his chips in as a 4.5-1 favorite preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not true. A year or two ago, i posed the question to the probability forum, stating what if I were In a hand With Phil Hellmuth early in the tourney, had a similar average sized chip stack as him, and I went all in against him after he has reraised me to 20% of my stack, showed him i had 67 suited, and told him he has a 25% chance of being KO'd this hand with most nay holding, even aces, so he should fold. Bruce Z. came back with some incredibly high level mathematical analysis based on a few main factors, essentially saying ANY player would be a fool to pass up a straight 2-1 proposition in a situation like that. You statement is saying that he would never call all his chips in with aces, which are usually between a 3-1 and 4.25-1 favorite.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was Ignatius (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=tourn&Number=120665).

[willie]

i thought i read an article by negraneu saying that a few players were doing this, he went on to advocate a style change for the wsop, making it into a multi game format because people were taking the skill out of the game by exploiting any edge at any time by using an authors new system to beat the pros...

something to that effect, soi figure some people were trying it this year.

[Nottom]

For those that missed it ... heres the comment from everyone's favorite pro.

ESPN Chat (http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=5713)

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Thuy (Atlanta GA): Phil, what was going through your mind when you folded that QQ in the main event. It is one of the best starting hands.


Phil Hellmuth: I folded queens in back to back hands at the WSOP this year. Both times to single opponents. The first time I wasn't sure what my opponent had but I felt he had Ace King or Aces and Kings. After I folded, he showed and it was Ace King. I had been unlucky at that table and I knew we were breaking the table. The second time, I actually thought my opponent had a smaller hand (he showed 77) I folded because I thought at the time I'm now so great at poker that I don't have to take a 4.5-1 favorite anymore. Lately I've been rethinking that strategy .. LOL .. The third hand I picked up KK (what an unbelievable sequence!) I went with the Kings (was the universe trying to double me up?)


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[Dan Mezick]

Here is the link to Negreanu's article on this FYI:

Should Pot-Limit or No-Limit Hold’em Crown our World Champion? (http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/archives/?a_id=12550)

[Dan Mezick]

...use "The System" very successfully online.

Proto-Conscious Online Poker Playing Primates (http://www.primatepoker.com/online_poker_faq.asp)

[jwvdcw]

[ QUOTE ]
You're right about the System not working as well at this tournament. I thought someone would be likely to try it because with a field that large and many satellite qualifiers might mean that someone in the tournament would not trust their poker skills enough and would want to try something that might give them a better edge than their own poker talents.

[/ QUOTE ]

If someone has actually read Slansky's TPFAP and won a satellite tourney, then hes probably good enough to just play it straight up.

[lolita16]

The one main drawback that I see with the system is that to use it properly as described in his tournament book, requires the ability to memorize quite a bit and calculate variables at the table. (I'm referring to the modified system which takes into account the blinds relative to your stack, number of players left to act, and the number of limpers). I love having the system as a backup in any situation that I am unsure of whether to push all in.

The trouble is if you are intelligent enough to use the system properly, you are likely intelligent enough to figure out a better way to play.

Regards-

[Ghazban]

I used the modified system in a couple online freerolls with a spreadsheet open to do the calculations for me. As I didn't really care about winning and was just interested in how it would do, it was easy to not get bent out of shape folding good hands. With the looseness of internet players early on (particularly in a freeroll), it actually worked extremely well because, if you've got all the chips in early, you're holding AA or KK and your opponents are calling you with all sorts of junk. Both times I used it, I folded a ton, doubled up a couple times, and had enough chips to threaten other stacks so, once the extremely weak players were gone, my all-ins were getting some respect. In both tournaments, 1000 people entered and the top 25 got into another tourney and I made the top 25 both times (adjusting my play both times once I felt I had enough chips to fold into the money).

People often say the system doesn't work because people make much looser calls early on (i.e. they don't care about risking their tournament life preflop on the morning of Day 1) but this mentality actually helps you greatly if you get great cards early. As the modified system takes into account stack and blind sizes, you're not going to be pushing anything but AA, KK, or AKs that early anyway and, with all three of those hands, you have a very good chance of doubling up.

[Phishy McFish]

It was made as an emergency use for someone who knew NOTHING about playing Hold 'Em. I have it in excel form (the revised version). Calculated it it out so that all you have to do is type in your stack size (or the 2nd highest if you are the chip leader), the blind sizes, the # of limpers and # of people left to act....plus your hand and it will tell you...PUSH or FOLD.......just did it for Ghits and siggles, but seriously....if you think this would work....I can tel you a sweet betting style that works on craps or blackjack. If you lose double your next bet and add 1 unit......continue doing so until you win, then go back to original increment. If you win add 1 unit to your wager. Just count your winnings and send me half.