50 dollar sng player, cant beat the fives

[golden goose]

I have sort of an odd question. I never kept track of ROI or any such thing, but I've won over 7 K playing 50 and 100 sng's(in other words i believe i know what im doing....maybe). /images/graemlins/wink.gif Various obligations forced me to spend my bankroll. I figured it wouldnt be too bad to work back up.

To my chagrin I have been working my way back down. Having lost 300 dollars in the 20 buyins, I wen't down to the tens , where I succesfully lost another 100 bucks.

o.k vent over. Sorry for wasting your time, my girlfirend jsut doesnt seem to appreciate my dilemna.Here's the question.

After playing enough sng's you either go broke or figure out what works at a particular level. Now I know my experience at the 20's is not significant, but i cant help but start to think my instincts match up better with higher buyin games.

Anyone else think playing in a 5/10/20 dollar sng is equivalent to playing in a 2/4 holdem game, obvious exceptions excluded. In other words the skill that gives you an advantage, is lost on most(NOT ALL, certainy not 2+2ers) of the table.

Any other 50/100 have a hard time with the lower buy-ins?

I also believe the smaller starting amount of chips puts pressure on me much sooner than it should. Does anyone know why the smaller buy-in games have less chips? It makes no sense to me.

[EnderFFX]

I definitly think there are many different levels to the Sit-n-Gos.

Level A - $5 & $10 some $20's
Level B - $10 & $20 & $30
Level C - some $20's $30 & $50
Level D - $50 & $100

The levels overlap a lot, I've played a $20 sit-n-go that felt like a $50, and a $50 that felt like a $10. A lot of this depends on what time of day you play.

Level A - Sit-n-Gos can be beat by playing patiently with no bluffing. Bluffs lose value and so do semi-bluffs. Playing your best hands without pushing margins will get you into the money at least 80% of the time.

Level B - Beat by playing patiently with little bluffing, semi-bluffs can work.

Level C - Bluffs work well toward the harder game, a different type of poker is played here.

Level D - Dunno, not good enough to play here consistently.

When dropping from $100 to $20, you need to expect a different type of tournament poker game. (It really does feel like a new game)

[betgo]

The low-money tables have real wild play early on. Usually it's best to play tight early on. You have to bluff less and avoid fancy moves.

If you are good at the $50, I would try going back to those if you can afford the risk.

[Desdia72]

kind of threads i do (i.e "Can A Good $50-$200s SNG Player Make $55-$65 A Day At The $5 + $.50s & $5 + $1s). we all know the skill level and thought process involved in playing a higher level of poker but how well would this overall skill level and thought process work at lower levels? can this superior skill and thought process overcome the wild and often ridiculous play at the lower levels to where you see significant profit- (a better player can beat a bad player over the long run, right?)?

[unfrgvn]

Maybe you are having a hard time respecting the low buy in and playing too loose/aggressive? I could see where your mind set might be that you can run over the table and maybe that's not working? I am not a $50 or $100 dollar player, but I have been a pretty succesful $10 SNG player.

[ QUOTE ]
...
In other words the skill that gives you an advantage, is lost on most(NOT ALL, certainy not 2+2ers) of the table.
.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a good question. I think you can use your skill to your advantage, but maybe to a lesser extent than at the higher levels. I think my advantages at the $10 level over most of the other players are:
1. Playing tight early and loose late. I know a lot of people here advocate limping in a lot of pots early and I've tried it, but for me it doesn't work. I seem to get more respect for my pre-flop raises if I've folded all the junk early. Of course, if I get a hand I'm going to push it, which leads me to advantage 2.

2. Most of the time I know when I've made second best hand, I think a lot of players at this level don't. This makes it easier to get your big hands paid off.

I gotta believe if you were able to beat the 50's for that much you should be able to beat the 10's or 20's.

[golden goose]

I suppose you can look in any book and see that lower limit games have more bankrole fluctuation, due to the spotty play.

I suppose I shouldnt be surprised this phenomena is true in sitn gos. I think I might try stars again , at least you get 1500 chips. 800 just aint enough.

[golden goose]

Unfrgvn,
If I was a betting man I'd say your right. so a piece of humble pie it is.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
I have sort of an odd question. I never kept track of ROI or any such thing, but I've won over 7 K playing 50 and 100 sng's(in other words i believe i know what im doing....maybe). /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

This is actually more tricky than you'd think. If you won 7K over only 100 SNG's or less, you could've just gotten lucky. Okay, you are *probably* a winning or at least break even player at that level, but as you've found out that doesn't necessarily translate to knowing what you're doing further down.

I've just made the transition from 30's to 50's at Party and I can already tell there is a world of difference. The 30's can be beaten by straightforward ABC play; the 50's are full of LAG's that will reraise a bet/raise all in with middle pair, mixed in with weak/tighties who insist on passively playing their sets to crack the LAGs. You definitely need to play the players as much as the cards, which is just not true at lower limits. So, yes, to some degree, skill is lost on those people in the sense that you can't outbluff them or milk them and shouldn't try.

To give you an example, at the $50 level, it seems like a good (or at least not a terrible) idea to sometimes limp big pairs in EP in the middle rounds, since you are almost guaranteed to get the blinds with an EP raise. At the $10's, if you go all in with AA UTG on the first hand you'll get two callers, so don't bother.

I'd suggest that you just play a solid, ABC game and watch what happens to the rest of the table. Since you're almost guaranteed to be down to 5 people by level 4 or so, you can steal enough or double up later and finish ITM a lot more than you would by trying to bluff your AK overcards for the fifteenth time.

[Richard Tanner]

There's no doubt in my mind that the play at the two levels ($5 and $50) is as different as can be. I think you were correct when you said that your thinking is in tune with $50 SnGs and not the lower ones.
I know what your going through, I've read the books, got experience and learned most of the intricacies of poker on my own (not that I'm the next big thing, but maybe third or forth down the line, lol). At any rate, being a college student my bankroll isn't sufficient enough to get involved at the $50+ levels regualrly. I've made my home on the $5-10 SnGs on Stars (Name-Cody Tanner go figure).
The others were right when they say that bluffs (and subsequently skill) loses value here. The best advice I can give is too become a rock; it seems to work well for me. Very little chasing very little second and sucker pair calling, just playing the nuts and learning how to extract the most out of a player when you have them. you can loosen up later in the game, around the bubble time, but until then I play so tight you can listen closely and hear me squeek.

Cody

P.S. you'd think that the players would stop calling you after seeing you show down the best hand time and time again, but it never really stops. THere is always someone willing to play you off for the best hand, the only real challenge is getting the most out of it.

[eMarkM]

Sounds like some leaks crept into your game. If you're playing at Party what I would suggest you do is take the hand history (always say "Yes" to the pop up when you're finally eliminated to auto send the history) and run it through the replayer here (http://teamfu.freeshell.org/replayer.html#). An invaluable resource to review your own play and the play of your opponents.

[golden goose]

I played all day today, and won five games and a couple seconds. Simply eliminating bluffing altogether and betting for value seemed to do the trick. Also, I realized there are usually at least four or five other players who I would consider to be "good players",or people that COULD play at a higher level if they desired.


I appreciate the advice i got though. Who knows maybe Ill even post a hand or two sometime /images/graemlins/cool.gif