Lets see what people think of this one

[Tosh]

Rebuy tournament from yesterday, my opponent is quite solid, but also a good player. I have been in this SB vs BB position maybe 7 times against him in this tournament and normally been too shortstacked to steal with my rubbish. I have finally doubled up and stolen a few more pots. I have raised twice in those times and check folded to a big flop bet. Ok thats the history, heres the hand.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1200 (9 handed)

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

MP2 (t22890)
MP3 (t11228)
CO (t25046)
Button (t45769)
<font color="C00000">Hero (t14070)</font>
<font color="C00000">BB (t29130)</font>
UTG (t50452)
UTG+1 (t7220)
<font color="C00000">MP1 (t56275)</font>

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="666666">7 folds</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t3600</font>, BB calls t2400,

Flop: (t6525) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets t3600</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t10395</font>.

[Chief911]

Tosh,

I think if I'm going to make a move in this position, I'd probably push. I'm actually a bit surprised you didnt. When he bet hard on the flop, I dont think I would have relied on my small pair. His smooth call preflop is very worrying in my eyes.

Hope it turned out!

Nick

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
His smooth call preflop is very worrying in my eyes.


[/ QUOTE ]

Its FAR less concerning than a reraise.

[joyride]

At first, all I could think was "Damn, you're much more ballsy than I am with only middle pair!", but I read it again and realized why you pushed.

He was figuring that you'd fold to a big bet like you had the previous two times, I'm guessing, so I think the push is a good choice here. He folded, eh?

I'm probably wrong, but it's early, and my brain doesn't function properly until about noon.

[swimfan]

Interesting. Pre-flop is fine. My instinct tells me to push immediately, however by checking I think you were able to get information. I would read his bet as having a piece of the board, worst case scenario flush draw w/2 overcards to the 6. Think he would bet stronger with a J, and if he had pair &gt; 6 think he would have re-raised you pre-flop. Think more times than not you're a strong favorite, hopefully he has 6x.

[TheJackal]

I like the play, heads-up people are more likely to try and bluff than into a large group of people. It seems to me like he was trying to buy the pot, hoping you had like AK, AQ, KQs. The raise puts him on the defensive and unless he has at least a jack, he needs to lay it down. At least this is how I would play it, the only scary thing would be if he was slowplaying a big PP, but if you have a good feel for your opposition, it's an easy fold if he reraises a large amount (like enough to set you all in).

[tpir90036]

some of you need to actually read the post and look at the stack sizes. if villain decides to re-raise and set the hero all-in he will already be waaaaaay pot-committed and have to call even if he knew the villain had a jack. he basically did push by making this move.

anyway, given the information i like the move. hope you got a fold out of it.

-tpir

[swimfan]

Ironically, I think you need to read the replies. I don't see any posts mentioning to bet out (non all-in) on the flop, only push/check/fold type comments. How can the villain re-raise an all-in heads up?

[tpir90036]

i wasn't talking about your post. i was referring to this:

[ QUOTE ]
but if you have a good feel for your opposition, it's an easy fold if he reraises a large amount (like enough to set you all in).

[/ QUOTE ]

there is no way our hero can fold once he makes this move. hero didn't *quite* go all-in...but it was close enough that he might as well have. and the villain would be setting *us* all-in.

cheers,
-tpir

[Tosh]

My checkraise was all in.

I should just clarify that there is a 75 ante and the pot should read 7875 on the flop. The convertor is being a bit buggy.

[tpir90036]

there you have it. it looked like you had less than 1000 left which is why i said that it should be treated as a push. and i still like the move.

[swimfan]

Yeah see what you mean, however reading that post think he mis-mentions "re-raise" since he didn't mention anything about the hero betting out the flop. Unless the poster is talking about villain re-raising pre-flop.

Regardless, I like Tosh's line as well.

[Tosh]

Sorry all that thought that, I assumed the details were right when I posted it so didn't check it.

[adios]

FWIW If he's got a 6 he'll probably keep coming, if he's got a flush draw he's probably not going anywhere no matter what, I think he'd call with a Jack. If he's on a steal and a scare card comes he may try to represent a hand and bluff off his money. Thinking out loud here but if you take this pot down right now you add 50% to your stack and you have some outs if you're called and you're beat. So the question in my mind is whether or not taking the pot down right now is better than taking the chance that you can double up by adding to the possibility that he'll bluff off his chips but taking a chance that he'll catch a card that beats you. If your a dog on the flop I think all your chips are going in no matter what. I guess in this tournament situation it's better to take the pot down now and add 50% to your stacks because the results are still decent compared to doubling up and you stay in the tournament. Hope my post makes some sense.

[SossMan]

preflop is good if there is some chance that you can take his BB. you said that you have tried it twice and been called both times. in some respects, though, K6s is raising preflop for value vs. a single opponent, although I'm sure you would be fine with a fold pf.

i prefer the flop checkraise all in rather than the bet out on the flop. I'm check-folding to a pot sized bet or bigger, though. The small bet gave you a little folding equity if he has a middle pair (77-99, would he reraise you w/ TT? probably).
He could easily have played AJ/QJ/KJ like that, and if so, then you have 5 or 2 outs, card happen.
I would be most scared of a middle pct-pair calling you since he has more than double your stack covered. But I'm going to take the chance since I'm most likely ahead, and certainly don't want to give a cheap turn card. The pot is too nice to not try and take right now.

good play, tosh.

[Tosh]

It seems that the majority think the play was reasonable. IMO check raising is better than pushing, I give him a chance to bluff off some chips, which given our history is likely. Adios made a fair point in that letting him bluff again, but I think just a pair of 6s is a bit too vulnerable out of position, even if he is bluffing nothing he almost certainly has at least one overcard, I prefer taking it down. With a rag pair of aces it would be a very different story though.

Sadly this time he had J9 and I didn't get lucky. But as always I care about the play, infinitely more than the result.

[Roman]

tough break, he does this with any 2 I think.

[MLG]

If you think he is going to call your preflop raise, I like limping preflop. If you think this player is good enough to fold if you show strength then trying to keep the pot small preflop gives you more wiggle room to pressure him on the flop. Although in these blind v blind situations I have a hard time thinking that any play is clearly wrong. I like the flop play. Oh well, cards happen.

[gergery]

Hmmm, alittle iffy, but ok. If you’ve check folded the last 2x, he should give you credit for it this time. Calling from BB with position from someone that’s come in 2x in last 7 and reads you as a good player would be willing to call with a reasonable number of hands, meaning he doesn’t have to have a great hand.

Pushing on flop smells alittle too much like you want him to leave, although betting 10k into 8k seems fine. I might call you with any J or middle pair then thinking you are bluffing. This gets rid of any club/straight draws which is good and chkrs does not do that.

The checkraise has merit. It makes your hand look stronger and less like a steal, it gives you more chips when it works, and it lets you see what he has to say. However, he only needs to call 6.k5 to win 20k, so you could get some loose but correct calls here, but I guess any two overs above J should have reraised.

On balance I like it, but like the push on flop alittle better since after his raise he’s getting 3:1, even tho his bet size seems weak.

I also like the preflop raise even if you think he’ll call with a wider range of hands, since K6s is (slightly) ahead of the range of top 67% hands (which is where is actual hand was)

Btw, wouldn’t a raise to 3000 accomplish the same as to 3600? And do you think his J9 call was loose?

--Greg

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]


Btw, wouldn’t a raise to 3000 accomplish the same as to 3600? And do you think his J9 call was loose?


[/ QUOTE ]

Raise sizes are very table/player dependant, thats the size of raise I felt good with. I honestly don't think its a big deal either way.

I think his J9 call was borderline, I don't think its that bad a call. As long as he makes it because he realises the reason I have been tight in my SB is that I have been very low stacked. With moderate stacks I would probably call with the J9 against myself.

[C M Burns]

The thing about this check raise is that the bb will likley call w/ almost anything since he is getting 3-1 on the call, 7k into 20k pot with your raise. and he would be left with a reasonable 16k. So I don't know if you really want to invite a call even if he has nothing even if he only has a couple over cards to your 6 he is about 30% to win and since he bet he prob has at least some kind of draw. If you do bet out allin he would have a very tough call even with his j9. So your way would get him to put more money when you are ahead, but since you are never going to be much ahead here, I think you want to minimise your chances of being called. imho

[TheJackal]

Yeah I misread the post, you all are right.

[Tosh]

I think its pretty much certain that there is no hand he calls my check raise with, that he would fold for an initial all in. Therefore, IMO, I get a bit extra out of nothing and maybe induce a worse hand to call that might have gotten out of the way.