Why is a pro a pro

[xburbx]

Im sure this is a talked about topic, but I couldnt figure what to search for on here. My question is, every average poker player out there has the same ability as any famous pro or non famous. What makes them so much better. Is it how they read tells, use implied odds/pot odds? I really cant figure out what they know and so many people dont. It cant be pure experience because lots of young college students are very good players and clearly cant have the same amount of experience. Someone clue me in.

[BusterStacks]

Just because you are a pro, doesn't mean you are good.

[Sponger15SB]

a pro is a pro because he makes all his money playing poker.

[mikimaus]

As far as I know on every area it's talent that separates the pros from the nonpros, or the average from the top. Knowledge comes second and in many cases the best players in the world are not as good at knowledge as many hobby players are.

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
... every average poker player out there has the same ability as any famous pro or non famous.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would have to disagree there. Some people inherently have more ability, and more specifically "potential," than others.

That being said, read Sklanky's essay, "The Eight Mistakes in Poker," on this site. (You can find it by clicking on the link for "Original Essays" when you first come to www.twoplustwo.com (http://www.twoplustwo.com), as opposed to going directly to the forums).

It would seem to me, that the "experts" (for use of a more appropriate word) make such mistakes A GREAT DEAL LESS OFTEN.

The more mistakes one makes, the more money he/she is ultimately losing to those who do not make such mistakes.

... in my opinion.

[Big Pun]

maybe this will help. it's pretty much someone who earns a living at doing something. so someone who earns a living at playing poker would be a pro poker player...


pro·fes·sion·al ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-fsh-nl)
adj.

Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer.

Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.

n.
A person following a profession, especially a learned profession.
One who earns a living in a given or implied occupation

[xburbx]

Ok, maybe I should clarify what Im looking for. Pro might have been the wrong word. What makes an amazing poker player and amazing poker player. I read Sklansky's essay. It makes sense, but not to the point where it would define the best players in the world. Talent in poker isnt the same as talent in Sports. An athlete is a gifted person with abilities great than the norm. In poker it comes down to an intelligent person being able to apply some sort of knowledge that many other people of the same intelligence dont know.

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
In poker it comes down to an intelligent person being able to apply some sort of knowledge that many other people of the same intelligence dont know.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and that is the "knowledge" of not making the already noted "mistakes."

[sthief09]

of course natural ability is important, but dedication to the game and experience are critical.

[xburbx]

The thing with experience is, lots of young college kids are extremely good at poker and can compete with amazing players. So experience helps, but there is something else

[moondogg]

[ QUOTE ]
The thing with experience is, lots of young college kids are extremely good at poker and can compete with amazing players. So experience helps, but there is something else

[/ QUOTE ]

???? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

What college players are actually competing with amazing players? The token college guy at each WPT final table (who is there just as a 1000-to-1 blind-luck jackpot)?
If you have 20 amazing players, 100 good players, and 500 crappy players, at least one crappy player will make the final table, just through dumb luck.

Experience is very key. Inexperienced people making final tables over and over or holding their own in world class games are VERY rare, and probably have some gift for the game.

Helmuth can win the game without thinking about it, which is good, because thinking is not his strong suit. Moneymaker made another final table, so maybe he's actually got some talent. Stu Unger was damn near psychic. These are extreme exceptions.

Everyone else has to earn it.

[xburbx]

But what makes those players "talented". They have the same tools as us. An athlete has better tools, a person who can calculate odds, or see something has the same tools as us, they just apply them differently. Im looking for how they apply tools. I dont just see how "talent" is the answer.

[sabre170]

To paraphrase Alistair Cooke, a pro plays his best even when he doesn't feel like it.

[special_o]

There are many skills in poker:

Hand reading, player reading, knowledge of poker theory (i.e. odds), emotional control, fearlessness, pyschological manipulation, ability to focus and concentrate for long periods of time, game selection, etc etc...

A "world class player" has more of these tools, or has them more highly developed, than a lesser player.

The beauty of poker (in that luck is involved in the short term) is that it is easy for an average player to be lulled into thinking that he/she is capable of playing on the same level as world class players.

[mandid]

A pro only menas you try to make a living from playing poker, Thats all

[keeneb143]

There is a simple reason why pros are so much better than everyone else. There are thousands of poker players that understand all the skills that it takes to be good ( the talented college kids that you discribed) but pros are able to put these skills into practice every time they sit at the poker table.

[Airpoaneman]

Why is everyone so dam obsesed with professional poker players. I think there is a better use of your time out there...somewhere fellas. Dear lord.

[xburbx]

They way I see it, and I could be very wrong, is that a professional athlete could teach me all day and night how to be a pro, but I would never be able to because its a different level. I believe that a pro poker player could teach me how to play as well as him if I was taught by him.

[Blarg]

Maybe, but there are a lot of assumptions there. About both yourself and the poker pro. A poet might tell you how to make things rhyme, but that doesn't mean you could ever write a single moving poem. Not all abilities lie right on the surface.

[xburbx]

I disagree, I think with the proper training and know how a person of equal intelligence to that poet would be very capable of writing a moving poem. I understand the analogy, but I think that when it comes to a "mental ability" where the range of mental ability at hand varies widely then there should be something that pros know that the average person doesnt. That is what I want to know. I also understand there isnt some magic secret, but I think there would be a path to take that is teh correct one.

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
The thing with experience is, lots of young college kids are extremely good at poker and can compete with amazing players. So experience helps, but there is something else

[/ QUOTE ]

???? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

What college players are actually competing with amazing players? The token college guy at each WPT final table (who is there just as a 1000-to-1 blind-luck jackpot)?
If you have 20 amazing players, 100 good players, and 500 crappy players, at least one crappy player will make the final table, just through dumb luck.

Experience is very key. Inexperienced people making final tables over and over or holding their own in world class games are VERY rare, and probably have some gift for the game.

Helmuth can win the game without thinking about it, which is good, because thinking is not his strong suit. Moneymaker made another final table, so maybe he's actually got some talent. Stu Unger was damn near psychic. These are extreme exceptions.

Everyone else has to earn it.

[/ QUOTE ]




what about cash games? two of my buddies from college are making a killing playing 100/200 shorthanded and heads up online.

[brewmeister6]

I'll have to agree with moondogg. These kids are doing well because they are just a lot of kids... and they stand out because you catch one or two (usually not the same, with the exception of the Dutch crowd) in the big tourneys for the God knows how many that are throwing themselves to sharks...

[brewmeister6]

If we all put the investments of college time and money into playing poker (20+ grand a year, with 60 hours a week) I think anyone could, after a four year program, become a poker professional.

I would, however, wait for a scholarship.