Pocket Tens are killing me. [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

View Full Version : Pocket Tens are killing me.

Benholio

08-20-2004, 03:11 AM

Tens have been killing me lately. Here are 2 hands that I was uncomfortable with when I played them.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed)

BB (t1045)
Hero (t840)
UTG+1 (t1015)
MP1 (t800)
MP2 (t1755)
MP3 (t715)
CO (t750)
Button (t535)
SB (t545)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Hero calls t30, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t30, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls t30, SB folds, BB checks.

Flop: (t135) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
BB bets t80, Hero raises to t200, MP2 raises to t400, Button folds, BB folds, Hero raises to t810 (All-In), MP2 calls t410.

Turn: (t1835) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t1835) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t1835

The first issue I have with this is limping pre-flop rather than raising. I will say, my MO has always been to make a standard raise with tens in an un-raised pot (~3xBB, maybe a little more in the first levels), but this time I tried limping, God knows why.
Second, 4 players to the flop, all limpers pre-flop. With the overpair here, I like my hand. BB raises small, so I raise large to try and isolate or maybe take the pot right now. Now when MP2 re-raises, I am totally lost. 2 pairs? Draw? TPTK? What should I have done here?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (7 handed)

Hero (t570)
SB (t850)
BB (t2385)
UTG (t725)
MP1 (t1855)
MP2 (t730)
CO (t885)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls t30, MP1 folds, MP2 calls t30, CO folds, Hero raises to t100, SB folds, BB calls t70, UTG calls t70, MP2 calls t70.

Flop: (t415) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets t470 (All-In), BB folds, UTG raises to t625 (All-In), MP2 folds.

Turn: (t1510) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t1510) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t1510

This hand, with 2 limpers in before me, I make a standard raise (~3BB) to try and limit the field. Of course, all the limpers call. With a paired flop, I think my pair might be good, and its checked to me. The pot size is roughly equal to my stack size. Is this a good spot to push?

Lori

08-20-2004, 03:45 AM

Hand 1 seems fine to me, hand 2 seems like you thought you had a hand, when in fact you were holding pocket tens.

Lori

Lori

08-20-2004, 03:46 AM

Bleh, that wasn't very constructive of me.

In hand 2, I proceed with extreme caution. A small bet might well take me to the river cheaply and also find out what kings and real sized pairs are out there.
Also, why did you raise pre-flop, you have an ideal opportunity here to try and flop a ten and double through, or get out cheaply.

You seem to over-rate this very mediocre hand.

2nd Edit: to try and limit the field.

Your raise isn't big enough as you haven't factored in the size of the pot.
I could understand, though dislike, if you pushed here and tried to get a coin flip (Which I still don't like, what do you think the early position guys have?) but all you have done by making a small raise (in relation to pot size) is make your implied odds go down.

Lori

Benholio

08-20-2004, 10:30 AM

Thanks for the reply. My thinking on hand #2 is that I was probably ahead, and if I checked here my opponents were a lot more likely to improve than I was. I'm not sure what the odds of one of my 3 opponents having one of the 2 kings are, anyone know the basic odds of that? If the flop was all kings would it have been the correct move then?

hummusx

08-20-2004, 10:59 AM

FWIW, I generally play 10's just like I play 8's. I limp and hope for a set. If the flop comes rags, I'll take a shot at the pot but I'm generally not looking to get all my money in with it. There are just too many cards that people are likely to have that could fall on the turn/river.

Of course, all of that is out the window in some scenarios. I'll raise if I'm first in and in later position, or if it's shorthanded than I think this can be a pretty big hand as is.

Lori

08-20-2004, 11:27 AM

I'm not sure what the odds of one of my 3 opponents having one of the 2 kings are, anyone know the basic odds of that?

What you need to be asking is 'Given that three people have called my preflop raise, what are the odds that one of them has a King.

Lori

adanthar

08-20-2004, 01:52 PM

Not even, though that's close.

The real question (and I only say this because I've seen post after post where people don't ask it) is 'what hands will call this bet?' repeated for each plausible bet amount.

Example: A bet of T100-200 may get a LAG's 77 or A5s to call, but may make a weak tightie's JJ-QQ fold. An all in bet on this board will be called by pretty much any hand that beats you (because it's blatantly obvious you don't have a king) in addition to all the kings.

Bigwig

08-20-2004, 02:11 PM

Well, I would personally play both hands differently.

Hand #1 -- I would raise when I'm first in the pot with 4XBB while they are that small. Limping is perfectly acceptable, of course. TT is way to vulnerable to overcards, and I want to limit the field.

Hand #2 -- I like the pre-flop raise when you're on the button with limpers, but not the amount that you raised the pot. I would have made it about 200, and since your chip stack is about 575, I would've just pushed all-in preflop.

C M Burns

08-20-2004, 04:44 PM

In hand 1 do you really want to go allin after someone reraised 2 others with no obvious draws, with just an overpair of tens? I would expect to see a set or posibly a slowplayed big pair most of the time.

I also like to just play tt like a small pair for the most part, playing it stronger tends to get me in trouble usuaslly