No Ante Seven Stud

[Al Mirpuri]

I am thinking of sitting in on a no ante seven stud game. Advice required. I have one idea: fold a lot of hands and as there is no ante I can even fold some of the marginal/speculative hands. However, it seems to me that I would still need to play loose enough to get action when I was in a pot.

[dandy_don]

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I am thinking of sitting in on a no ante seven stud game. Advice required

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Yes, be very selective with the starting hands and bet/raise aggressively with the best hand. In low limit stud, you usually don't have to entice action or slow play; just play premium pairs (10's-A's), limp in with medium-to-high 3-flushes and high 3-straights. I've seen it quite often that one player can show trips in the door and others will try to chase down a better hand.

What site are you going to play stud?

[Iceman]

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I am thinking of sitting in on a no ante seven stud game. Advice required. I have one idea: fold a lot of hands and as there is no ante I can even fold some of the marginal/speculative hands. However, it seems to me that I would still need to play loose enough to get action when I was in a pot.

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In the no-ante stud structure with a 1-5 limit on all streets with a $1 bring-in (or 2-10 limit with a $2 bring-in), the only way you're going to make any money is if the players are very loose. If the game isn't loose, don't play. When a couple people have called the $1, you should limp in yourself with a lot of live drawing hands, considering the implied odds you're getting and the money already in the pot. In early position, limp in for $1 yourself with live drawing hands if a raise is unlikely. 3-flushes, high 3-straights, hidden pairs, or split pairs with 2-flushes are all worth playing if they're live. While you should play tight in raised pots on third street, or in early position on third street if a raise is likely, once there's a pot of any size you should treat the game like a normal stud game and play to knock players out.

[nef]

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While you should play tight in raised pots on third street, or in early position on third street if a raise is likely, once there's a pot of any size you should treat the game like a normal stud game and play to knock players out.

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I don't think this is accurate. Especially not in situations where you're talking about raising with the second best hand to get the third best hand out, or vice versa.

[bdk3clash]

Someone once described optimal no-ante stud play against poor opponents to me thusly: "Play so tight it hurts."

[Al Mirpuri]

www.gamingclubpoker.com. (http://www.gamingclubpoker.com.)

[timmer]

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In the no-ante stud structure with a 1-5 limit on all streets with a $1 bring-in (or 2-10 limit with a $2 bring-in), the only way you're going to make any money is if the players are very loose. If the game isn't loose, don't play.

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Please elucidate, why do you think this is so ?

Just wandering

timmer

[SevenStuda]

Correct.

-Dimitri

[Iceman]

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In the no-ante stud structure with a 1-5 limit on all streets with a $1 bring-in (or 2-10 limit with a $2 bring-in), the only way you're going to make any money is if the players are very loose. If the game isn't loose, don't play.

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Please elucidate, why do you think this is so ?

Just wandering

timmer

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When there's at least a moderate ante, you can make a lot of money in tight games by stealing pots, either on third street if they let you, or on fourth or fifth if players are loose on third but weak-tight later.

In a 1-5 no-ante game, what are you going to steal, the $1 bring-in? When lots of players call the $1, then there is a significant pot to play for. When people won't play without the high pair on board or a legitimate draw (and the draw won't call a raise and won't pay off if it doesn't improve), then you can't profit from their tight play like you could in a game with a moderate or higher ante.

[Iceman]

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While you should play tight in raised pots on third street, or in early position on third street if a raise is likely, once there's a pot of any size you should treat the game like a normal stud game and play to knock players out.

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I don't think this is accurate. Especially not in situations where you're talking about raising with the second best hand to get the third best hand out, or vice versa.

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The reason why you normally play to knock players out in stud is that increasing your chance of winning the pot is normally more important than getting a few extra bets in that pot. That isn't usually the case on early streets of a no-ante game, but it's generally true once the pot gets large in any stud game, regardless of what the ante structure was like back on third street.

[Al Mirpuri]

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Someone once described optimal no-ante stud play against poor opponents to me thusly: "Play so tight it hurts."

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Dear bdk,

I am sure the advice given you was meant to be correct but you have to play loose enough to get action when you do enter a pot and tight enough not to get stuck when there is nothing (no ante) to play for.

[timmer]

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In the no-ante stud structure with a 1-5 limit on all streets with a $1 bring-in (or 2-10 limit with a $2 bring-in), the only way you're going to make any money is if the players are very loose. If the game isn't loose, don't play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please elucidate, why do you think this is so ?

Just wandering

timmer

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When there's at least a moderate ante, you can make a lot of money in tight games by stealing pots, either on third street if they let you, or on fourth or fifth if players are loose on third but weak-tight later.

In a 1-5 no-ante game, what are you going to steal, the $1 bring-in? When lots of players call the $1, then there is a significant pot to play for. When people won't play without the high pair on board or a legitimate draw (and the draw won't call a raise and won't pay off if it doesn't improve), then you can't profit from their tight play like you could in a game with a moderate or higher ante.

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I have played 1000's of hours of 1-5 stud with the tightest vegas players out there. I still manage to make a profit even after the rake and my modest tipping habits.

In these games You dont profit from stealing rather from their too tight play.

you profit from:
Being a better player
Forcing them to make mistakes greater than they normally would through their incorrect play vis vie the structure and bad habits.
Charging them the max to draw then folding when they make it.
By turning the pot upside down on them and taking advantage of the tight assed betting styles they usually have that give you great drawing odds.

the worst part about this game isnt the players . your greatest advesary is the casino rake and or jackpot rip offs.

If you correctly adjust to the texture and style of play in addition to the structure you can derive a profit in exchange for an extremly low variance.

Just my few cents

timmer

[MRBAA]

Your profit will be very slim and the game will be very boring. That said, the $1-3 no ante games at foxwood (which may not be profitable due to the smaller top bet) are still crowded, so some folks obviously enjoy them. The $1-5 game at Foxwoods with a .50 ante/$1 bring in is, by contrast, possibly the most profitable game in the casino on a BB/hr basis.