Is the board pre-set?

[cianosheehan]

Does anyone know what way the cards are dealt on the sites? As in, when the random generator thingy chooses what card is coming out next, does it pre-determine what the flop turn and river are, like in a real deck? As opposed to choosing each coming card at random as they are to be displayed? The equivalent of taking up the deck and shuffling it before dealing the flop, then shuffling it before the turn, and then the same for the river. Ive often wondered, as it would make or break the "oh, I would have had the straight" notion. (not a meandering to be taken seriously by any winning poker player, I know!)

[Oski]

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Does anyone know what way the cards are dealt on the sites? As in, when the random generator thingy chooses what card is coming out next, does it pre-determine what the flop turn and river are, like in a real deck? As opposed to choosing each coming card at random as they are to be displayed? The equivalent of taking up the deck and shuffling it before dealing the flop, then shuffling it before the turn, and then the same for the river. Ive often wondered, as it would make or break the "oh, I would have had the straight" notion. (not a meandering to be taken seriously by any winning poker player, I know!)

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I don't see how there will be any practical difference. When the turn or river peels off of either deck, you can see whether you "would have had the straight."

I have wondered the same thing you are asking now, however, and I don't know the answer.

[Alobar]

It depends on the site. Some are preset after the first shuffle, others shuffle for each card.

I remember reading that at UB it just keeps continuesly shuffling and only stops to get the card when it is called on. So if you took longer to act on the turn, your river card would be different than if you clicked right away. So you could in theory complain that you missed your str8 because you clicked when you did /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[BrettK]

http://www.ultimatebet.com/about-ub/rng.html

http://www.partypoker.com/about_us/rng.html

http://www.pokerstars.com/security.html


I'm not sure why it matters whether you would have gotten a card or not, but here are the pages I found. The Ultimatebet page seems to be the most helpful, and from what I gather from different parts of the page, it continues shuffling the deck until a new card is needed.

Brett

[cianosheehan]

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I don't see how there will be any practical difference. When the turn or river peels off of either deck, you can see whether you "would have had the straight."

[/ QUOTE ]

But had you have been in, and had the board not been pre-set (ie., shuffling before every card), then you probably wouldnt have had the straight. Because you being in would have changed the way the cards would come out, had it not been pre-set.

[Oski]

[ QUOTE ]
So you could in theory complain that you missed your str8 because you clicked when you did /images/graemlins/smile.gif

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Which would remain in theory, because you still don't know which card would have come at which specific time.

[Rudbaeck]

The sites who don't continously shuffle now will most likely start doing so in the near future. It doesn't really cost them any extra, and it adds TONS of security. (Especially it adds a metric assload of _perceived_ security. Keeping clients happy is half the battle.)

[balkii]

Are they updating the pattern map logarithms to deal with this?

[Sponger15SB]

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Are they updating the pattern map logarithms to deal with this?

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give me $50 and i'll tell you

[csuf_gambler]

[ QUOTE ]
The sites who don't continously shuffle now will most likely start doing so in the near future. It doesn't really cost them any extra, and it adds TONS of security. (Especially it adds a metric assload of _perceived_ security. Keeping clients happy is half the battle.)

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i dont see how it would be any safer when someone could conceivably change the outcome of the cards by the timing of their actions, if anything, it would be less safe.

[cardcounter0]

You just need to add a "continuous chaos" factor of cosine log to the horizontal term.

[CountDuckula]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The sites who don't continously shuffle now will most likely start doing so in the near future. It doesn't really cost them any extra, and it adds TONS of security. (Especially it adds a metric assload of _perceived_ security. Keeping clients happy is half the battle.)

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont see how it would be any safer when someone could conceivably change the outcome of the cards by the timing of their actions, if anything, it would be less safe.

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A. They would have to know what cards were going to come up at a particular time, to within a tiny fraction of a second, as well as what mouse gestures would lead to which paths and what effect the other players acting before have already had on the randomization process.

B. They would have to be able to time their actions and gestures to hit the exact path they want on the exact fraction of a second it's available.

C. Nobody else could be acting behind them and contributing additional unknowns.

It would be easier to find a single grain of salt in a mountain of granulated sugar. While wearing boxing gloves.

This sort of thing is exactly what modern slot machines do; the chip inside generates thousands of results per second, including a few jackpots, a few more minor wins, and many more losing combos; the timing of when the player hits the button/pulls the switch determines which result gets selected. The reels spin, etc., but the result has already been determined at the time of the pull; the rest is just window dressing.

I don't think any casino execs are losing sleep over the possibility that someone might be able to figure out how to hit the button at just the right time to claim a jackpot more often than chance allows.

-Mike