How do I use all of this information?

[LSUfan1]

I have been up and down several times, mostly playing at the lower limits 3/6 and below.

My question is this:

After reading all of the information in SSH, WLLH, TOP and others, how do I use said information to my benefit?

Here is my delima:

I read, reread and understand most of what I have purchased but I tend to go out and try to crush the competition which tends to make my play overly aggressive and LOSE! I also don't feel like I have a very good grasp on the numbers behind the game. When I am on my game I feel invinceable, but then I get over aggressive and I am quickly brought back to reality!

I know I don't really have one problem here, but anyone care to take a shot at a good starting point? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

CLIFF .....GEAUX TIGERS.... TIME TO REPEAT

[Rudbaeck]

Focus on getting better at the numbers. SSH has some GREAT hand quizzes, work with those alot.

Read all hands on the corresponding limit forum (small stakes or micro limits most likely). Before reading responses figure out the 'best' way of playing the hand. See if your answers are similar to what the forum consensus is. 2+2'ers played the SSH way before SSH.

And don't settle for getting the answer right, you'll get it right one time in three by pure guesswork. Focus on getting the logic behind the answer right. Not only 'raise', but 'I need to raise, and I can do it for both value and cleaning up outs, so it's a great raise.'

[AKQJ10]

I haven't read SSH but from the discussions in Books/Software i get the impression that it recommends a much more aggressive style than WLLH. Could the solution be as simple as playing less aggressively until you move up to a limit where aggression is more likely to win the pot?

I'm just guessing about that because i really don't know what SSH says about when to play aggressively or not. I just know that in most low-limit games i've observed you're not going to win very often without the best hand.

[KenProspero]

I'm more or less in the same boat as you are.

I was playing and doing fairly well at micros, until I went heavily into these books. To be honest, they wrecked my game.

What I decided was that I was trying to do too much too soon. Each of these books discusses many things that will lead to being a winning poker player. The most important thing is you have to thoroughly understand a concept before you can successfully apply it.

Now here's the problem, as I see it. If you're trying to integrate 6 concepts into your game, and you understand 3 of them, you're going to be in big trouble, and probably will lose money. To make matters worse, you have know way of knowing which of the 6 concepts you don't understand.

So, what I'd recommend is make changes to your regular game slowly. Take baby steps. If you're fairly successful, and a change wrecks your game, make sure you can isolate what the change was, and go back to the books to master the concept.

Hope this is a help.

[RED_RAIN]

[ QUOTE ]
What I decided was that I was trying to do too much too soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

You hit what a lot of new people that went the route of playing a bit, then reading a ton, and then trying to play like a pro do and then end up losing a lot.

As you said, concentrate on working a certain part of the game, you can afford to do this at micro limits since even if other parts aren't there, you won't lose (if you even do) a lot.

I would go by this way of order (You can move some around):
1. Preflop - Get this down, what do you do with ATs, AJo, QJo, QTs, A9s, 9s, 8s, 2s-6s, if you can't answer these for any position, any situation of limipers/raises preflop, you don't know enough yet
2. Drawing/Free Cards - Gotta learn when it's right to raise for a free card and when it's better to just call and get others to limp behind you to disguise your hand
3. Post flop - How to play Q6o when you hit top pair in the BB, how do you know when you are beat and when to call down
4. Check/Raise - When to do this, if you hit a monster, do you do it on flop, turn, river
5. Value Betting - When do you keep betting when you think it may be close that you may be beat
6. Player Reads - How do you read your PokerTracker stats etc

[Vollycat]

[ QUOTE ]
You hit what a lot of new people that went the route of playing a bit, then reading a ton, and then trying to play like a pro do and then end up losing a lot.

As you said, concentrate on working a certain part of the game, you can afford to do this at micro limits since even if other parts aren't there, you won't lose (if you even do) a lot.

I would go by this way of order (You can move some around):
1. Preflop - Get this down, what do you do with ATs, AJo, QJo, QTs, A9s, 9s, 8s, 2s-6s, if you can't answer these for any position, any situation of limipers/raises preflop, you don't know enough yet
2. Drawing/Free Cards - Gotta learn when it's right to raise for a free card and when it's better to just call and get others to limp behind you to disguise your hand
3. Post flop - How to play Q6o when you hit top pair in the BB, how do you know when you are beat and when to call down
4. Check/Raise - When to do this, if you hit a monster, do you do it on flop, turn, river
5. Value Betting - When do you keep betting when you think it may be close that you may be beat
6. Player Reads - How do you read your PokerTracker stats etc

[/ QUOTE ]

This is one of the most helpful posts (for me) I've seen. Thanks for spelling it out. However, how do I solve these questions/points? I know I am going to continue to play at the micro limits and learn and 'just see more cards'. But one of the big problems is that I am getting successful at the lower levels. This is leading me to 'try' a little higher level. I'm holding my own but don't really feel too comfortable mainly because of the points you so kindly listed out. I'm fairly level headed so if it goes awful I'll drop down, but boy would I love to move up!!! I've read HFAP and have yet to get Ed's book. Any additional tips?

[RED_RAIN]

You can get a lot of free help by reading and posting on these forums. In the Micro Forum be careful, just because someone posts something doesn't mean it's right. There are a lot of posters there that don't know the correct answer or reasoning.

Learn why you do things, don't just memorize hands and plays. If you know why you do a certain play, then you can adapt when the cards a little different, or situation is different. This helped me a lot to move up faster.

I'm not sure what level you are playing. I think the best limit to play where you can learn and profit quickly is .5/1 at empire/party. 1/2 is a lot different and harder I think. 2/4 is very aggressive. .5/1 is extremely beatable, so if you aren't here, and can afford it, move here.

You can also search in the archives on topic such as drawing. I think a lot of people misplay when to go for a free card or not, when trying to maximize the amount won when you do win.

Knowing when to be able to bet second pair the whole way is also important instead of only betting when you have top pair.

Then how to logicallly narrow down a person's hand to a range of hands, then to a few hands, then down to less than 5 hands, then down to the cards themselves, then to the suits also.

If you are going to play online, I would learn to multi-table. You also can get to see a lot more hands.

[golFUR]

Multi-tabling for people still learning the ropes? I'd recommend multi-tabling for one reason, but only on pennies or on play chips. If you multi-table, only play the top 10 or top 15 hands, and play them aggressively. It is a good lesson as to why they are the best and a good reinforcement of why odds are so important.

But to multi-table for larger stakes might just be begging for trouble. After all, if you are still learning to read your opponents this isn't going to help you at all. You are so busy clicking you don't have time to notice when seats change sometimes...

So yeah, multi-table, but know why you are doing it and do it in the right place.

[RED_RAIN]

[ QUOTE ]
only play the top 10 or top 15 hands, and play them aggressively

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly on track in this comment. But the message behind this can often helpe people from stop playing crap like QTo, K9o, A7o, T8o, JTo.

[Vollycat]

Thanks guys. Your right--I'm playing the .5/1 tables and have found them soft--even for me. I'll multi-table two or three tables at a time with usually a SNG ($5 or $10) as one of them.

I'm making up to 20BB/hour...I'm on a great run of cards lately. I tried 1/2 and QUICKLY noticed the difference. The easy push and shove with middle pair no longer worked which I got away with a the .5/1. I tried the 2/4 and the aggression hurt my head! I held my own but I think the cards did more for me than my play so I'm only going to play that when I feel really spicey! I've not looked through the small stakes forum much, so I'll head over there and start learning. Thanks!!

[RED_RAIN]

[ QUOTE ]
20BB/hour

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't know how small your sample is. But it won't last.

[Vollycat]

[ QUOTE ]


Quote:
20BB/hour
Don't know how small your sample is. But it won't last.


[/ QUOTE ]
That's what I'm afraid of and what makes me think getting so lucky so early is going to burn me by moving up too fast. I'm trying to reign myself in but...

[RED_RAIN]

I don't know how many hands you are at, but I'm guessing under 10k. At 10k you usually aren't ready, but you can always try it and see if you can do well on the next level and stop at the level you feel comfortable at.

One thing, if you aren't comfortable with a lot of the skills listed above, learn them cheap is what I say...then you can move up fast and know how to play and just adjust a little.

[benkath1]

One thing I have found out about the books is they don't really tell you how much you are really going to fold. Yeah, they all say play aggressive, and calling is bad, you should either raise or fold. What they don't tell you is how many time you will have to choose to fold. After reading SSH, I was under the impression I could just run over these small games with all that aggression. Then I started to see the other option in raise or fold. I have laid down many winners, but those are on small pots. The pots I win with my good cards are usually much bigger. I hope this helps.
Ben