first $5 sng

[marklipp]

Was fun, pretty much what I expected. This hand was probably the turning point. My question is related to my betting first, and my reads second. Should I have raised more PF, bet more on the flop? What about turn activity?
Thanks.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (7 handed)

MP2 (t560)
CO (t760)
Button (t1230)
SB (t1285)
Hero (t1290)
UTG (t505)
MP1 (t2370)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG folds, MP1 calls t30, MP2 folds, CO calls t30, <font color="CC3333">Button raises to t60</font>, SB calls t45, Hero calls t30, MP1 calls t30, CO calls t30.

Flop: (t300) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets t80</font>, MP1 folds, CO calls t80, Button calls t80, SB folds.

Turn: (t540) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets t125</font>, Button calls t125, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t250</font>, <font color="CC3333">CO raises to t375</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises to t500</font>, Hero calls t250, <font color="CC3333">CO raises to t620 (All-In)</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises to t1090 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls t590.

River: (t3340) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t3340

[2planka]

Welcome to SNG's mark. I'm still learning, but here's my thinking:

AQo can be a toughie in bad position.

I would reraise pf to try to thin the field and/or see how the button reacts. Without information, I don't know if his min raise means anything. I make it 150 to go (too little? too much?) and see who wakes up. With so many involved, the flop has to hit you pretty hard, which it does.

That said, I don't think you bet enough on the flop. There's 300 in the pot. I like a pot size bet but pushing the flop is an attractive option, especially with so many opponents. If you run into KK then oh well. If, however, you run into AK, I like your chances.

But the K on the turn was dern unlucky. I don't think I lay down Q's full in a $5 SNG, especially with over 3k in the pot. If I was playing for a bracelet, I may consider it, but not in a $5 SNG.

Anyone agree? I'm trying to get better at describing my thought process.

[Lori]

Preflop is fine, you don't want to give the button the option to raise again and you get to see what the others are going to do.

Be aware that there are all kinds of hands possible here due to the mini-raise from the button.
Nobody is folding their initial garbage here.

I like your flop bet, it looks like you hold a king and is small enough to keep in JT (Which is a hand you want in, because it is a gutshot draw in this scenario)

When you get two callers, you have to wander what they have, I haven't read ahead yet, but typically you could easily be up against Qx (and possibly KQ, but don't see monsters that are probably not there) and JT or Kx.

The Kx would tend to bet or raise here, but it's difficult to tell at some times.

The point is, that even though there are only two hands out there, you have to assume you are up against a weak queen, a weak king and a drawing hand /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

On the turn, I'm often weak enough to fold here, although your initial mini-raise is interesting because it asks the question 'Do you really have a king'

When the button AND the CO decide they both want to raise, you are not winning this pot.
The best you can hope to be against is AA and Qx and split it two ways, but more likely you are up against a king or two, or a king and a guy who cant fold AA, either way you are probably doomed.

You haven't crippled yourself, so bail out and wait for a better shot at them.

Edit: You can of course beat two people who have Ax and think they have the nuts, but do you think this will happen often enough (Two people, both dealt Ax, both played it and both want to get involved with it three ways) to counter the times that one of them holds a king?
The good news if you fold and they do both have Ax is that you're going to beat them anyway /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Lori

[adanthar]

First and foremost: Don't play $5 SNG's at Party. Stick with 10's and up.

Preflop is OK.

The flop depends on how the others have played to date; you have a hand that is extremely strong and not *that* vulnerable, but you want to know if anyone else has a Q before you minimum bet your way to a failed slowplay. If the button is aggressive, consider trying for a checkraise; if not, just bet out more. A queen will often raise/reraise and all the money will go in while he is almost certainly drawing to 3 outs. Certainly, any Q and most K's/AA at the $5 level will never fold no matter what you do, so you may as well make them pay for drawing. (Besides, 97% of Party players will slowplay trips to the turn and assume you have just about anything other than a Q.)

The turn...

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="CC3333">CO bets t125</font>, Button calls t125,

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think there's a good chance your Q is the winner now?

[ QUOTE ]
<font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t250</font>, <font color="CC3333">CO raises to t375</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises to t500</font>,

[/ QUOTE ]

How about now?

[ QUOTE ]
Hero calls t250, <font color="CC3333">CO raises to t620 (All-In)</font>, <font color="CC3333">Button raises to t1090 (All-In)</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there *any* chance you're winning this hand now?

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I lay down Q's full in a $5 SNG

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty bad. It's not even bad because folding is the correct play (although it is); it's bad because you are completely ignoring your opponents' hands (and, in this case, common sense.) You could say that if this was a limit game and you had to pay 2 bets in a 40 BB pot; you *cannot* say that in a tournament given this action. What, you think they're both bluffing with 2 other players in the hand?

[NotMitch]

[ QUOTE ]

But the K on the turn was dern unlucky. I don't think I lay down Q's full in a $5 SNG, especially with over 3k in the pot. If I was playing for a bracelet, I may consider it, but not in a $5 SNG.

Anyone agree? I'm trying to get better at describing my thought process.

[/ QUOTE ]

With a board of KQQK and you holding a Q the best you can hope for is a tie and with any action ahead of me this is an easy fold. Queens full is lousy on this board.

[marklipp]

Thanks for the replies. You're absolutely right adanthar. The little voice was saying, "You know one of them has a K", but my hand clicked call -- twice! I take no responsibility for my hand's action. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Seriously though, one of my leaks is something that Lori brought up about thinking everyone has a monster. I usually have no problem folding. So I went against it and made myself believe that one had a Qx and the other was AJ or JJ.

In the end they BOTH had Ks. One was Kx the other AK. doh.

[2planka]

andanthar,

I made the comment about not laying down q's full, not the op, so I deserve the heat.

My main point is that in a low buyin sng with such a huge pot the worst that can happen here is that you wait five minutes for the next one to start.

I'd agree with you 100% if this was even a $20 SNG, but at this level I think it's worth a gamble once in a while. I'd lay this down in my home game, but I'd think about it in a $5 SNG. That's all.

Perhaps I should keep my responses within the context of the OP's question and ignore my take on the buyin. Fair enough.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Lori]

My main point is that in a low buyin sng with such a huge pot the worst that can happen here is that you wait five minutes for the next one to start.



In general, you should try to assume that anyone playing a $5 SNG needs the money in proportion to their bankroll size as much as someone in a $200 SNG.

All that changes is the standard of play of the opponents.

Lori

[2planka]

Point taken. I'll keep this in mind henceforth. Glad to have you back here, btw.

[poboy]

Wow talk about unlucky. You almost couldn't ask for a better flop, but that has to be the worst possible turn card for your hand. For me this is an easy fold, your opponent(possibly both of them) almost certainly has a K. I just don't think they could both be bluffing. The min-raise pf could even be KK. I say wait for a better opportunity.