Getting into coaching.

[jedi]

I've been playing "serious" poker for a little over a year now, mainly small stakes and I've gotten to the point where a couple of friends are starting to play the local 1/2 games. They've gotten to the point where they know the rules and mechanics of the game but strategy wise, they're not much better (and in some cases worse) than your average micro limit Party Poker player.

Here's where I come in. Although I'm not an expert by any means, I have sat in some of the local 1/2 and 2/4 games a the casino and it amazes me how badly these people play. I could reconstruct a hand and tell you almost every mistake these players make and why (thank you S+M and Ed Miller, NPA). I believe that I can coach my friends to beat this game, even to the point where we'd only need 2-3 sessions before they can beat over half the 1/2 players in the room.

I myself am playing 3/6 live while I build my bankroll back up (lost a lot of it learning when starting out, and want to slowly get it back up) and I'm certainly not egotistical about my poker skills, but I really think that with the info I've gathered from books and this forum I can get them out of calling-station hell and become better players. I also do know that the best way to learn is to also teach, so I'll be learning from 2+2 AND trying to teach the up and comers at the same time.

So, what does anyone think about this? Also, I was thinking about what to "charge" players. I was just going to make it a percentage of their winnings. They don't pay if they don't win. I'm trying to figure out what percentage and if any of this is worth it to begin with.

Comments?

[csuf_gambler]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I was thinking about what to "charge" players. I was just going to make it a percentage of their winnings. They don't pay if they don't win. I'm trying to figure out what percentage and if any of this is worth it to begin with.

Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

thats not gonna work at all. people arent gonna pay for "poker lessons" especially those that arent even serious about the game.


but my mainpoint is that this whole coaching idea is not good because people just simply wont listen. people are naturally retards. i have taken a couple of my friends to the casino to play holdem cause they say they play it and watch it on tv and what not. while driving to the casino i tell what hands not to play and what not. i explain alot of stuff to them. i tell them not to play suited garbage, ragged kings and aces, unsuited connectors etc. we get to the casino, we sit down, and what happens? first hand, these retards cold call a raise with garbage like Q5 suited. im sitting there going wtf are you doing and the idiots typically responses, "its suited". dont even bother trying to help, its just a waste of time. if they want help then they'll ask for it.

[BlueBear]

Hi,

I understand you may be interested to share your passion and interest in playing winning poker with your close friends but I wouldn't bother teaching anybody because for some peculiar reason, for many people, they enjoy the game more by playing loosely rather than sitting tight, doing nothing and playing "boring, old super tight" poker. So long they're nothing over-gambling or not losing too much money, I would just let the game be "loose" yet "fun" for them. Playing tight and disciplined winning poker is not exactly "fun" for most people. Hey, I don't really it fun either.

On the other hand, if any of your friends do catch on the poker bug and is very serious on wanting to learn how to beat the game, I would be most happy to discuss the game with them and direct them to valuable resources such as books and this website.

[Drunk Bob]

"I am myself am playing 3/6 while I am building my bankroll back up".

Are you going to lead your friends to 2+2 or are you going to be the noted poker authority?

[Drunk Bob]

If party poker .50/1.00 and your local $1/2 are so easy,Play those games in sight of your friends and prove to them how easy it is.

[Blarg]

Watch out. They'll blame you if they lose, and then it will be your fault. Losing is bad enough, but they're paying you to lose? Good way to get some angry friends.

As beginners, they'll likely lose plenty. And even great players just lose sometimes, so add in completely normal fluctuation and you've got lots of losing potential while they're paying you to learn how to win.

Save yourself and them the aggravation and the relationship strain and keep your nose clean of the whole business. Steer them to a good book or two, and give them a shoulder to cry on.

If you want to teach them lessons, do it away from the table. Print out some odds charts, maybe some starting hands charts, and pass them over, then quiz them on them regularly. They really need to know the odds and should at least have a strong understanding of position and its affect on starting hands no matter what set of starting hands charts you use, so this is information they'll have to get down sooner or later.

If they're not even work that hard, they're just wasting their time anyway and you can stop worrying about it. They're playing for fun, so let them have their fun and don't sweat it.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
"I am myself am playing 3/6 while I am building my bankroll back up".

Are you going to lead your friends to 2+2 or are you going to be the noted poker authority?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll defintely lead them to 2+2. Believe me, there are PLENTY more NPAs out there than me.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]


but my mainpoint is that this whole coaching idea is not good because people just simply wont listen. people are naturally retards. i have taken a couple of my friends to the casino to play holdem cause they say they play it and watch it on tv and what not. while driving to the casino i tell what hands not to play and what not. i explain alot of stuff to them. i tell them not to play suited garbage, ragged kings and aces, unsuited connectors etc. we get to the casino, we sit down, and what happens? first hand, these retards cold call a raise with garbage like Q5 suited. im sitting there going wtf are you doing and the idiots typically responses, "its suited". dont even bother trying to help, its just a waste of time. if they want help then they'll ask for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's mostly true, BUT.... they have expressed an interest in getting better at this. I can show them some really basic ways to get better (like tightening up, for one) and beat the game they're in. If I felt like they didn't want to learn, I wouldn't have bothered at all.

[stripsqueez]

its very hard to teach something you are expert in - you have all the answers but you forget how you learned them - your students arent retards - i reckon that impression is a by product of the frustration involved in trying to convert expert understanding to a level that is comprehendable

teaching is very good for your game because to do it well you have to return to basics

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[pokerjo22]

Are you always looking for ways to make money out of your friends?

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you always looking for ways to make money out of your friends?

[/ QUOTE ]

When I play poker against them, yes! /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Actually the reason I bring this up entirely is because they've expressed an interest in this. I've also thought about staking players and wanted to see how that would work out. This would also cover my time and effort should they do well.

If I didn't think they were willing to learn, then I'd just be taking their money during our home games.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
its very hard to teach something you are expert in - you have all the answers but you forget how you learned them - your students arent retards - i reckon that impression is a by product of the frustration involved in trying to convert expert understanding to a level that is comprehendable

teaching is very good for your game because to do it well you have to return to basics

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[/ QUOTE ]

A ha! It's good that I'm not an expert in this field then. Of course, I'm still learning myself but it's fairly fresh in my mind and the stuff that I'd be teaching would be fairly basic stuff to try to beat the local 1/2 game. Just thinking about it has brought me back to the basics myself.

[adamstewart]

Why not just lead them to the books that you have read, etc, etc...and this site.... ?

Then you'll have more time to play by yourself and 'rebuild your bankroll.'

[jedi]

By the way, this would NOT be a long term deal. It would be just a couple of sessions because I do believe that some very simple, basic concepts will help them immensely.

Really, I'd be teaching basic things such as starting hands, position, agression, and reading the table. From there, books and the forum would be able to take them further.

[dogmeat]

So, you lost a lot of your bankroll while learning how to play? Well, hey, sign me up for lessons! Or, better yet, tell me you are playing my little <*}}}}><

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
hand, these retards cold call a raise with garbage like Q5 suited

[/ QUOTE ]

If it was spades I hope you told them that they need to re-raise.

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
So, you lost a lot of your bankroll while learning how to play? Well, hey, sign me up for lessons! Or, better yet, tell me you are playing my little <*}}}}><

Dogmeat /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol. Damn, I wish I never made this post now.

I did start out losing money last year, but since discovering 2+2 and some of the books, I've been turning it around. I've mostly been playing online and I have separate "bankrolls" for online ring games, online tournaments, and live ring games/tournaments. Since most of the experience I have has been online, my bankroll there is healthy. The live bankroll hasn't been attended to as much, but I see it getting back to form.

Again, let me say that I defintely don't consider myself an expert, but I do believe that I can teach these people basic tips to beat the 1/2 games that they play. Maybe I should just scrap the whole idea. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey Jedi,

Charging your friends to talk poker with them is bogus. Thinking about asking for a percentage of their winnings, while not accepting any losses is also bogus. Real friends help each other out and are always thinking about what's best for the other person, not looking to make a quick buck off of them. I currently am staking a couple friends for considerable amounts, but it's only because it's what's best for them, not because I want to make money. Be a real friend.

GoT

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Jedi,

Charging your friends to talk poker with them is bogus. Thinking about asking for a percentage of their winnings, while not accepting any losses is also bogus. Real friends help each other out and are always thinking about what's best for the other person, not looking to make a quick buck off of them. I currently am staking a couple friends for considerable amounts, but it's only because it's what's best for them, not because I want to make money. Be a real friend.

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay. I got it now. What about staking them myself? That'd be a better idea so I take responsibility for my teaching and their play?

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
Charging your friends to talk poker with them is bogus. Thinking about asking for a percentage of their winnings, while not accepting any losses is also bogus. Real friends help each other out and are always thinking about what's best for the other person...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, like remember when they tripped you in front of those girls and called you a homo, gave you a pink-belly during that one gym class, and shoved you in the mud after that big rain? It was for your own good, and hell, maybe it straightened you out a little.

[Richard Berg]

Yeah, what he said. You have 920 posts collaborating with Internet strangers for free, but want to charge your real-life buddies? Try thinking out this one again from the top.

[Senor Choppy]

You ought to either give your friends lessons for free or have much more experience and proven success if you plan on charging for this.

Tell them to buy SSHE and forget about trying to make a buck off them.

[jedi]

All righty.

Thanks for the opinions guys. I'll take them to heart and NOT go into coaching, other than answering questions when they have them.

-Jedi