I'll take "Ugly boards" for $200, Alex [Archive]

View Full Version : I'll take "Ugly boards" for $200, Alex

Bill Smith

08-17-2004, 07:52 PM

All streets open for discussion.

Hand #1

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
5 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero checks,

Flop: (2.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (1.25 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 4.25 BB
Main Pot: 3.25 BB, won by Button.
Pot 2: 1 BB, returned to Button.

Ugh... can't decide if this was a good fold. I figured only an ace would raise, but after the fact I'm not so sure. Slap me silly.

-----

Hand #2

MP1 has VP$IP around 45% and plays just about anything suited or connected, but no other notes.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero raises, 2 folds, MP1 calls, 5 folds, BB calls,

Flop: (6.50 SB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, BB folds, Hero 3-bets, MP1 caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls.

River: (11.25 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, Hero caps, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 19.25 BB
Main Pot: 19.25 BB, between Hero and MP1.

Bill Smith

08-18-2004, 10:42 AM

Bump. 30 views and no comments?

mikeyKay

08-18-2004, 11:07 AM

hand #1

im not sure, its a tough situation, what would you have done if he just called the turn? i think you can fold and not worry about it, the pot is small, and this hand (along with ones like it) will not have a huge effect on your game at the 2/4 level.

hand #2
im guessing you think hes got 2 hearts? i looks pretty standard to me, flop straight to the A, bet the hell out of it...flush comes on the turn, im thinking you were scared of a cap, so just calling i guess is good...on the river, he may have boated up on the turn, but i still put bets in on the river w/out a question.

Elektrik

08-18-2004, 11:09 AM

Hand 1: I would have folded to the raise as well - can't put him on anything other than an ace (and it's not like he's going to push you off your hand if you have one)

Hand 2: I would have played it the same, but slowed down on the river. MP1 is representing a powerful hand on the flop, possibly a set, straight, or (given your read) two pair, and the turn didn't slow him down a bit. Unless he's super aggressive with his draws, I doubt that flush card on the turn helped him, and likewise, I doubt that improving your straight to a flush improves your hand that much against his.

StellarWind

08-18-2004, 11:11 AM

Hand 1: Raise preflop. If he doesn't even like his hand enough to steal you should punish him. Just watch out for good tight-passives that only limp premium hands in this situation.

Bet the flop. I'm not playing him for a five, so same reasoning as preflop. You probably have the best hand.

Don't fold the turn. An ace would probably have bet sometime last week. It's likely what you are looking at is his reaction to your previous weak play.

Hand 2: Just bet the river and call a raise. If he has a small flush the checkraise will often miss. Anyway, unless this player is quite aggressive, his flop play points to a full house and not a flush. You gave way too much action.

[ QUOTE ]
I'll take "Ugly boards" for $200, Alex

[/ QUOTE ]
Ironic that you would pick this title for a doubleheader. Jeopardy! never asks about two answers at once.

rigoletto

08-18-2004, 11:13 AM

#1

Why bet the turn? Not many worse hands will call with this small pot, but they might try to bluff you!

#2

Don't cap the river on a paired board - what do you think he has?

Bill Smith

08-18-2004, 02:11 PM

Well, I think my critical mistake was capping the river in hand #2, and we could probably debate even raising it in the first place. I felt like he would play a lot of hands the same way, including KJ (maybe any K), J9, two hearts.

Villian flipped over KT for the boat and MHING. Should've slowed down.

MoreWineII

08-18-2004, 02:37 PM

I was just gonna say how come nobody has suggested rasing PF in hand 1.

Garland

08-18-2004, 02:53 PM

Hand #1

The pot is small and it's not worth it. Don't sweat the fold.

Hand #2

3-bet the turn and call down otherwise. I don't like the river cap, because by now it's obvious to him he doesn't have the A /images/graemlins/heart.gif, and he should be able to beat a flush. All betting actions have indicated that he had two pair or better on the flop and the turn improved him to a boat.

Garland

nepenthe

08-18-2004, 03:02 PM

WHY did you check this river in hand 2, planning to checkraise? That is terrible. A worse hand is most likely not betting for fear of the 4-flush. A better hand (i.e. FULL HOUSE!) is betting and capping.

No, you must bet the river. And CALL a single raise. That's it. No 3-betting, no checkraising, and definitely no capping. What do you think your opponent has that he would play this way that you beat? That is the critical question you must ask yourself at every juncture.

Addendum: In fact, given the way the hand has played out, I would think that checkcalling the river isn't too bad either. The guy capped the flop and raised a 3-flush turn. He most likely has a boat, or a lower flush. By the time he 3-bets the river, it is crystal-clear what he has.

StellarWind

08-18-2004, 03:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I felt like he would play a lot of hands the same way, including KJ (maybe any K), J9, two hearts.

[/ QUOTE ]
The key problem with hand 2 is you played for an unknown opponent to have capped this flop heads up against a PFR with only a draw.

I'm not saying this couldn't happen, but do you think it's percentage poker to expect it? Aren't hands like a set or kings-up more solidly in the picture?

You also need to bet the river. Most of the hands that you beat are terrified of the fourth heart. The river will often checkthrough when you are ahead.