One of the Great Minds of the Eighteenth Century

[andyfox]

I made this joke recently about Alan Keyes. However, I read this yesterday in that icon of American journalism, USA Today:

"Alan Keyes, the Republican candidate for the U.S. Senate from Illinois, wants to end the system under which the people elect senators and return to the pre-1913 practice in which state legislatures chose senators. Keyes said the balance between state and federal power was upset when the 17th Amendment was enacted. 'The state government as such no longer plays any role in the deliberations at the federal level,' Keys said at a taping of radio station WBBM's At Issue program.

"State Sen. Barack Obama, the Democratic candidate, supports popular election of U.S. senators. 'I certainly trust the people of Ilinois to choose,' Obama said."

Is Keyes taking advice from our own HDPM? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I thought it was the liberals who were elitists and didn't trust the people?

[Gamblor]

I thought it was the liberals who were elitists and didn't trust the people?

Come on andy you know better.

Anybody who deems themselves among the elite is by definition an elitist. Liberal or conservative.

Allow me to make a point, hopefully without hijacking this thread.

Cyrus "the Libertarian" is a classic example; instead of allowing the Israelis and Palestinians to settle their own differences, Cyrus has determined that as the elite, he knows what's best for everyone (in a recent poll 70%+ of each side declared their antipathy towards a binational state, of course, Cyrus recent suggestion as to the solution to the conflict: "a binational state!").

Please don't make this an Israel/Arabs thread!

But you get the idea. Everyone knows what's best for everyone else. Liberal and Conservative are not descriptions of who or who doesn't subscribe to this doctrine.

May I humbly suggest that we discuss how far the right to impose on the lives of others (i.e. through law) extends?

[andyfox]

Andy: "I thought it was the liberals who were elitists and didn't trust the people?"

Gamblor: "Come on andy you know better."

I do know better. /images/graemlins/wink.gif /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[The Armchair]

The movement to repeal the 17th Amendment is nothing new, nor nothing elitist. Keyes is simply saying that states have limited power; that this can be traced back to the enactment of the 17th Amendment; and that the former needs to be fixed.

Obama's retort is simply non-responsive. Why do you let him paint the picture he wishes?

[HDPM]

Keyes has not sought my advice. Although he should. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Keyes said the balance between state and federal power was upset when the 17th Amendment was enacted

[/ QUOTE ] someone who supports this, please elaborate why.

[The Armchair]

Before the 17th Amendment was enacted, Senators were elected by their state's legislature, not their state's voters. A senator's constituency, therefore, were the legislators and not the rank-and-file voters.

Imagine the differences you'd get in that situation compared to today. Typically state-level issues would remain so, because the state-level legislators wouldn't elect a Senator who would co-opt their power. This happens every day, as almost all Congressional spending bills come with strings attached. (Did you know that there's no national drinking age? It's just that if a state goes lower than 21, they'll lose a huge % of their highway funds.)

Now, we have a system wherein individuals vote based often on litmus issues and/or party identification. People vote on issues that are typically state concerns when choosing a _federal_ candidate.

[ThaSaltCracka]

hmmm....thats interesting, and to be honest with you, I never realized this.....hmmm.......hey you learn something new everyday, right? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[jcx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Keyes said the balance between state and federal power was upset when the 17th Amendment was enacted

[/ QUOTE ] someone who supports this, please elaborate why.

[/ QUOTE ]

I support this for the reasons stated above (States rights) and a nice bonus is it would likely result in fewer career politicians, as there will always be rising stars in the state legislature who want their shot. For those on the right, this means fewer Ted Kennedys. For those on the left, fewer Strom Thurmonds.

[Zeno]

Mr. Keyes should couple his current proposal with one to also repeal the 16th Amendment (which allows for the income tax).

-Zeno

[natedogg]

"I thought it was the liberals who were elitists and didn't trust the people? "

It's the leftists. And conservatives too of course.

natedogg

[Bill Murphy]

The 17th Amendment should be repealed. Just to throw a couple examples out, you wouldn't have carpetbaggers like Hillary & Orrin, nor multi-million dollar senatorial campaigns.

Liberals don't trust people with their own money, conservatives don't trust people with their own bodies, and neither trust people with their own brains.