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View Full Version : Attention 2+2 handicappers- do we knock down Wake up Call in 2004?


Easy E
08-17-2004, 01:57 PM
Having just been bullied into it by the 2003 defending champ, Wake up CALL (with his "psychological warfare training"), I'm thinking about resurrecting our NFL handicappers challenge for this year.

For those of you not in the know, last year the 2003 "Pimpin' Picks" contest was run in the following manner:

<font color=" blue">- I posted the official 2+2 point spread weekly for each game, based on what I could get from the Stardust online, along with a posting deadline
- Each player had to post 4 games with their picks, ranked from 4 pts to 1 pt, by the deadline
- Point spreads must be beaten, just like in real life, in order to get your points for that game. Ties were the same as losses- 0 points.
- Perfect week was 10 points (4,3,2,1)
- Regular season only- no preseason, no post-season. Big Al's "Shoe-Ins" always welcome at any time, of course!
- Auto-fading scalfie's picks was considered too easy and cost a -2 deduction ( wait, I just made that last rule up... /images/graemlins/wink.gif ) </font>

We did this just for a fun challenge and to learn from one another... well, bragging rights were involved as well /images/graemlins/grin.gif

At the end of last year, I posted the following potential 2004 adjustments to comment on:

1) TIES- Losing all of the points when the spread ends up in a tie seems a bit harsh (ask Big Al). However, I don't think it seems that fair to give half-points, either. A 4-point pick tie is worth as much as a 2-point pick win (and only the latter made anyone any money in the real world). Any suggestions?

<font color="green"> [ Suggestions were to subtract losses, add wins and 0 points for ties.] </font>

2) I'll have to remember to keep the win-loss records next year. That will be a more revealing indication of a handicapper's skills than the average per week.

<font color="green"> [dummy me decided the challenge wasn't ENOUGH work last year.... ] </font>

3) Should we use money bets next year, instead of points? Total bankroll would be a REALLY good indicator of betting mastery. One idea that was rejected for this year's Challenge was to have a $500 or so bankroll to spread out among the four games (that would solve the tie issue, since you'd "gain" by not losing money). Year-end winner would have the most money- ties broken by win-loss record.
And if we wanted to be really anal about it, we could include the vig...

<font color="green"> [While the bankroll portion might make sense- we would have to max the bets on each team so someone wouldn't bust out of the challenge in the first week and be done- I don't think the vig actually serves a real purpose for this contest. Winning one $400 bet or winning a $300 and a $100 is the same amount of vig, so who cares to track it?] </font>

<font color="red"> [At one point, I thought about a "UPF vs. 2+2" component but dropped it as too much added work... but I'm an idiot who can be talked into a lot of things, so ???] </font>


-----------------

So, I'm reopening the floor to suggestions for this year:

I) Do we have any interest?

II) Should we keep the "Pimpin' Picks" name?
I'm in favor of retiring it, since the poster who it was named after (fatherpimp) dropped out part-way through last year and has disappeared to my knowledge.

Add to my suggestions or vote for them:

"OGF Challenge" or "OGF Pick'em"

"Shoe-In Pick'em Challenge" ( may be copyright issues to work out here)

" [Defending champ's initials] Pick'em Contest" &gt; "WuC Pick'em Contest" for this year (on second thought, forget that one!)

"2+2 NFL Challenge"

III) What should be the format?
Here are my 3 suggestions- add to them or vote on them:

One- <font color="blue"> Old School, Improved: </font> 4, 3, 2 and 1 pt picks again (or, if you prefer dollars- $400 through $100). Wins add points, losses subtract points from the total

Two- <font color="orange"> Old School, No Negativity: </font> Each week you get 10 points added to your bank. Picks are 4,3,2,1. Same scoring as above, but if you lose every one you don't have to stare at a negative score and average (perfect week would be 20 pts, a "scalfie week" would be 0)

Three- <font color="green"> Real World, New School: </font> Total bankroll is $20K. Each week you can bet up to a total week's wager of $1000 (across any number of games). Year-end contest ties at the end of the regular season can be decided by betting on the playoffs in some manner.


Okay, the polls are open! All initial comments, votes and catcalls must reply here and are due by Monday, August 23rd. We may go through a second round to pick a final method if voting is close.

"Too" Easy "to push around" E

Wake up CALL
08-18-2004, 12:29 PM
It appears the huddled masses are either afraid to make any suggestions or are just waiting for <font color="blue"> His Royal Majesty </font>the <font color="red"> 2003 Pimpin Picks </font> the wimner to respond first. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

1) Either method you choose is fine by me
2) Actually the points method is more revealing in a real life scenario since most solid handicappers do vary their bets based on the strength of their picks.
3) Either points or money should show the same final result unless you choose to subtract the vig in which case the money bets will prove to be more accurate.

I) Yes I am interested in defending my title!
II) 2+2 NFL Challenge has a nice ring to it
III) I like either Real World New School or Old School Improved.

SossMan
08-18-2004, 04:59 PM
I wouldn't mind doing this. I don't care about the scoring system, but the point system (4,3,2,1 for wins and -4,-3 etc.. for losses) seems to be the simplest.

Count me in.

Easy E
08-22-2004, 03:27 PM
Is there any broad interest in this at all? 2 posters does not a quorem make.

jamesburke
08-22-2004, 03:36 PM
i liked the system we used last year, except u should input minus's on losses and pushes as pushes.

So if my 4 wins, my 3 loses, my 2 ties, and my 1 wins.
I will have a net of 2. and that should be your score for the week.

Just my 2 cents.

scalf
08-22-2004, 03:48 PM
/images/graemlins/cool.gif thanks for your work..you better believe i'll be in there to defend my championship from last year: the ONLY contestant to have two perfect weeks (both + and -) lol..

see ya

p.s. whatever ya come up with; ya gotta set the point spreads in concrete; that seems to lead to the most arguments among fn cappers..

tia..

gl

/images/graemlins/cool.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/spade.gif

craig r
08-22-2004, 04:44 PM
why don't we set something up at wagerline.com. we can set up a free contest. they use the most available lines for that time. for example, if at 11:00 a.m., the line is PHI -3 in most spots, that is the line one would get. Some of us would have different lines then others depeding on when we bet, but that is part of handicapping. plus, you can bet different units on games (i think 1-4). this would also make record-keeping much easier.

craig

Porcupine
08-22-2004, 05:01 PM
(I) Hoping to improve on last seasons season total tie with Scalf (no offense intended to Scalf), I definitely am interested in participating.

Scalf: Not only did I tie your season total, but I think I also had a 10 (perfect good) and a zero week (perfect bad). Although my zero may have been due to ties.

(II) I also like "2+2 NFL Challenge", but suggest we go with "2+2 NFL Challenge 2004" or "2+2 NFL Challenge 2".

(III) I like old school improved.

bugstud
08-22-2004, 05:28 PM
old school improved has my vote as well.

Should be named the "Fade scalf challenge" imo /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

scalf
08-22-2004, 06:09 PM
/images/graemlins/grin.gif two different weeks where the mighty scalf was 4-0; check it out...lol

but fade away..i feel this is a year parity rules; bet for a team one week; against the next....

gl

let's rock&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; /images/graemlins/shocked.gif /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Easy E
08-23-2004, 10:00 AM
Okay, seems as if we have enough interest AND a clear-cut scoring system preference

We'll use the "Old School, Improved" system, where ties are 0 and losses are subtracted.

One minor vote to clarify- should we use points, or cash to represent points? I actually think the latter would be a little more fun and feel more "real" for this, if scalfie is down -$400 and I am up $600. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

So, chime in with a preference and I'll set this up in a week or so.

Easy E
08-23-2004, 10:01 AM
you were the bronze medalist last year

Easy E
08-23-2004, 10:05 AM
[ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/cool.gif thanks for your work..you better believe i'll be in there to defend my championship from last year: the ONLY contestant to have two perfect weeks (both + and -) lol..

[/ QUOTE ]


Scalf, I think i remember the two perfect goose-eggs, but I only have a record of ONE perfect week- contest #10 (NFL week 15). Did I miss a perfect week by you?
You WERE the only handicapper to win a week twice, untied.

As for "setting point lines in concrete", we DID that last year, remember?

<font color=" blue"> - I posted the official 2+2 point spread weekly for each game, based on what I could get from the Stardust online, along with a posting deadline </font>

Easy E
08-23-2004, 10:08 AM
I will post the official 2+2 line, just as I did last year. Sometimes a few games were posted late, but we made sure that everyone had the same line to work with.

Easy E
08-23-2004, 10:10 AM
Plus, then scalf would be forced to post first, at the beginning of the week, so everyone could properly fade his picks...

My lawyer's advice (and scalfie's outrageous royalty demands) prevented this from being an option.

jamesburke
08-23-2004, 12:22 PM
i would stick with points, since it will easier for u to run it.

mikelow
08-23-2004, 05:21 PM
good luck!

Dynasty
08-23-2004, 10:54 PM
I might even do this. Maybe I can get Clarkmeister to join as well. He hasn't got a prayer of beating me in our fantasy football league so I figure I'll give him a shot here.

eggzz
08-23-2004, 11:23 PM
Count me in.

To make it easiest on yourself, I would vote for the 4,3,2,1 format, perfect week nets you plus 3 more points.

I like the 2+2 NFL Capper's Challenge

SossMan
08-24-2004, 12:52 PM
So, do we PM you our picks and you post them, or do we just respond directly to the post with the lines in them? Seems someone could gain by having "position" on someone who posts before them (especially if Scalf goes first...lol)