AJ 2 Pair vs. Possible Trips

[AliasMrJones]

BB had previously shown loose PF raising/3-betting standards and a tendency to call down post-flop with a wide variety of holdings. I hadn't seen SB play a lot of hands to showdown so not as sure about him, though he was definitely tighter than BB both PF and post-flop.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: AliasMrJones is UTG with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
AliasMrJones calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, <font color="CC3333">BB raises</font>, AliasMrJones calls, MP1 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">AliasMrJones bets</font>, MP1 folds, CO folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">AliasMrJones bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB calls, AliasMrJones calls.

Comments on the play so far? The river isn't really important so I'll post it along with the results later.

[pstripling]

I like to open raise AJ or fold. Not sure if that is the correct play, but I would rather try to knock out hands like KQ, Q9, etc.

[MrHorace]

Interesting hand! One that's caught me more than once, and cost me too!
My experience, limited as it is, is that the pair on the flop is DANGEROUS!! It is especially so when you, the hero, are holding two good pair at the turn.
My hunch is that SB had a 10 in the pocket?? or was afraid of BB having JJ? Granted a novice hunch.
Point is that pairs on the board on the flop are cliff hangers! Since noone really bet the flop hard, they could've been playing slow, waiting for more expensive turn.
I'll have to watch this one to see what others say. I'm very curious.

[MoreWineII]

I think you're going to hear a lot of "raise or fold preflop" with AJos UTG.

I like the flop/turn action. Don't forget, you have four outs still assuming your opponent(s) has a lone 10 (or KQ).

[AliasMrJones]

Yes, I find most people wait until the turn to pop the raise if they have the trips. Unfortunately, that's exactly what happened here.

Regarding the limp in EP with AJ, I sometimes do raise with it in EP. This table was pretty loose PF, and strangely maybe even looser when there was a raise. In fact, I chose this table just for that reason. So, raising isn't going to knock out hands like KQ, etc. I don't have my copy of IT here with me atm, but I think IT recommends limping in EP with AJo, KQo as well and many folks regularly recommend raising them.

In any case, raising here would be because my hand will crush what hands these loosey-gooseys might play, not because it will limit the field, cause at this table it won't.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're going to hear a lot of "raise or fold preflop" with AJos UTG.



[/ QUOTE ]

You will from me.

[PokerNoob]

Why invite hands that you're only at best a coin flip with to play?

[MaxPower]

I could write a long post analyzing this hand, but I'll just say that if you think the SB is a decent player and is relatively tight post-flop, then you should strongly consider checking the turn and calling one bet on the river.

If you think he would call your flop bet with a very wide variety of hands, then you should bet the turn.

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
Why invite hands that you're only at best a coin flip with to play?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll say again -- raising is not going to clear out the coin flip hands at this table, in fact at this table it might induce a re-raise that would have limped otherwise. Do you still want to raise? If yes, then it is because you'll dominate those hands, not because you'll clear the muck.

I'm not saying raising isn't a better play than limping here, I'm just saying that it isn't going to clear out the hands you want to eliminate at this table.

[PokerNoob]

By coin flip, I mean hands such as underpairs to the J that you are 50/50 against. Most hands that call/raise you here either dominate you or are overpairs to your Jack and you are worse than 50/50 to them. However, if you are playing at a table that is loose enough such that you'll get callers to an UTG raise with AJo that you dominate, by all means you should raise.

On this particular hand, I wouldn't get too worried about SB, particularly if he likes to peel one off with an Ace in his hand. Call and check/call the river would seem to maximize your winnings against Ax and minimize your losses against a ten.

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]

I could write a long post analyzing this hand, but I'll just say that if you think the SB is a decent player and is relatively tight post-flop, then you should strongly consider checking the turn and calling one bet on the river.

If you think he would call your flop bet with a very wide variety of hands, then you should bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

BB I knew would call with lots of hands so wasn't as afraid of. I didn't know as much about SB, except that he played more hands PF than I do, but not as much as BB.

I often find myself unsure how to proceed when I have paired one of the flop cards and the other two are the same rank.

This was a loose/wild table and given a lack of more specifc information, used my general table impression when evaluating this situation with an individual. Obviously, even at a LAG table, not everyone is a LAG.

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
By coin flip, I mean hands such as underpairs to the J that you are 50/50 against. Most hands that call/raise you here either dominate you or are overpairs to your Jack and you are worse than 50/50 to them.

[/ QUOTE ]

By the above aren't you basically saying that in most situations by raising you eliminate coin-flip hands and just leave hands that dominate you or are at least better than 50/50? That doesn't sound appealing.

[House-Lion]

I think your play so far is good (except I also think AJ should open raise) (Heck if Ed Miller in SSH thinks AT is worth a raise AJ must really be, even at loosy-goosy-table)

I'd go into calling-down-mode after the turn-raise and hope for the ace or jack on river.

Did SB have KQoff, T9 or the JT for the flopped house?

If BB called down to river, what did that clown have this time, K7?

[MrHorace]

[ QUOTE ]
I often find myself unsure how to proceed when I have paired one of the flop cards and the other two are the same rank.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have the same issue. And I believe it is very similar to the situation of flopping a set with a flush on the board. With the set and flush on board, I figure ten outs total by the river, the quad, and ?3x3 of cards on board. NOt sure if this is right, but you get the point.
In the case of having a pair, and pair on board, is it similar? Help you smart people!
Thanks.

[AliasMrJones]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: AliasMrJones is UTG with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
AliasMrJones calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, <font color="CC3333">BB raises</font>, AliasMrJones calls, MP1 calls, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (10 SB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">AliasMrJones bets</font>, MP1 folds, CO folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="CC3333">AliasMrJones bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB raises</font>, BB calls, AliasMrJones calls.

River: (12.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">AliasMrJones raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 16.50 BB, between BB and AliasMrJones.

BB shows A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (two pair, aces and jacks).
AliasMrJones shows J/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (full house, jacks full of aces).
Outcome: AliasMrJones wins 16.50 BB.</font>

SB gave it up so I never got to find out what he had. BB did indeed hold a dubious raising hand. I didn't originally include the river because I was bailed out of a tough situation.

IT does indeed suggest raising with ATs, but not in EP. In fact, in a game with 3-5 avg. to the flop IT suggests raising with AJs and KQs, but limping with ATs, AJ and KQ. I've been trying to IT-tize my play so decided to go with the limp.

I wasn't too worried about BB, but SB probably did have the T. He would have raised QQ-AA and I don't think would have called the flop and check-raised the turn with another J, though I guess it is possible. KQ is possible as well and would have made a turned straight that he may have thought got rivered by the flush.

In any case, on the turn I was almost certainly behind and had 4 outs with 9.5 BB in the pot. I was lucky this time. I like check through the turn and call 1 bet on the flop unless the A or J comes on the river.

Previous to reading IT, I looked for tables that were looser than average, but not crazy avg. pot size. After reading IT, I started looking for tables that were at the top of the avg. pot size list - in the 9-10 BB range. Having built my bankroll up at 2/4 to the required amount, this was part of my first night of 3/6 last night. I looked for tables in the 9-10BB range and found this beauty. There were two players in a pissing contest PF re-raising each other many hands with questionable holdings and several others who would call the 2/3/4 bets PF with a variety of hands. It was a fun night.