Showing Cards

[nutstraight]

Alright, I've asked this before but I got a different answer than what the rules say. Here's the deal

If 3 or more people are in on 5th street and each call the raiser, do the people who know they are beat have to show their hands? The rule says the winner can ask to see everyones cards. So what do you all do as a norm? This comes up everytime at my game that someone doesn't want to show thier cards if they aren't called.

[ddollevoet]

At my home game, you are only required to show your cards if it is a showdown and someone is all in. Otherwise, showing the cards is at the loser's discretion.

[theWhale]

On pokerstars, you can go back in your history and see what was mucked by all those who were in the showdown so I assume he is correct. However it is considered bad form I think. You would only do this to try to prove collusion or something.

[Stryfe]

Defintely bad Poker etiquette. If you ask to see my cards without a good reason, I will make you show all night. I was playing at a live game where some old lady asked to see my cards even though I mucked them. The dealer flipped them over and showed her. He said that is their rule. She got really defensive and said that she should be able to see how I play. Since she was obviously abusing the privelege I asked to see her cards every time she mucked. She then started throwing them into the discards on purpose to mix them so I could not see them. She was getting very angry, and she was definitely on full tilt. It was hilarious. I'm usually a really nice guy /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ohgeetee]

the person who is called has to show their cards. those that called the bet paid for the right. the people calling can muck at will, and technically anyone at the table can ask to see their cards, but it is considered bad form.

if your person that is called really wants to muck before knowing he hasn't beaten someone, more power to him IMO, he is obviously hiding trash, whether its 72o or 59s it doesn't really matter, unless you suspect people working together and purposefully mucking winners.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
Alright, I've asked this before but I got a different answer than what the rules say. Here's the deal

If 3 or more people are in on 5th street and each call the raiser, do the people who know they are beat have to show their hands? The rule says the winner can ask to see everyones cards. So what do you all do as a norm? This comes up everytime at my game that someone doesn't want to show thier cards if they aren't called.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, here's the RULE: At showdown, the player who made the last betting action MUST show his hand to be eligible for the pot. Additionally, all players that called bets at the showdown can be asked to have their hands shown by ANYONE at the table.

So, basically anyone who did not fold prior to showdown could be asked to show their cards by anyone at the table and by rule those cards are shown to everyone at the table.

However, it is extremely poor etiquette to ask to see the cards players that mucked their hands without showing. But, that's etiquette and the above is the rule.

PS: In my rules for our monthly tournament, I have written special rules regarding this and that is if a player mucks his cards without showing them, then they stay mucked and he does not have to show. But, cards MUST be shown to claim the pot at showdown, so it's the player's choice really.

The person who made the last bet or raise must show first. If there is no bet or raise then the first person to the left of the dealer shows first.

[cferejohn]

Yes it is a rule in cardrooms, but it is there to prevent collusion. As others have stated, asking constantly is very poor form, although many times the person who was called will declare their hand in an attempt to get others to show (i.e. "one pair"); this is a little bit of an angle shoot, but if you don't like it, well, don't bite.

Back to the question at hand. Assuming you don't think collusion is a problem at your home game (and lord I hope not), I think you should just make a house rule, one way or the other. In my home game, I'm usually playing with friends, and I'm happy to let them see my cards (its for pretty small stakes relative to what I normally play). If your game is more serious or often has unknown players, you probably want to have the rule, but make sure people understand that it should only be used if you suspect collusion. Or you could make a rule that everyone always has to show if they get to the showdown. If that's clear in advance then I don't think there will be a problem.

[Mojo Tooth]

[ QUOTE ]
Additionally, all players that called bets at the showdown can be asked to have their hands shown by ANYONE at the table.


[/ QUOTE ]

"the RULE" says that? I don't think the RULE should include the phrase "ANYONE at the table." It should be amended to say "anyone who called the final bet." Why should someone who didn't risk money in the pot be allowed to gain that information? Only people who are in the pot should have the right to ask.

In fact I'm reasonably sure that the rule in my local cardrooms is that way, that only those who participate in the showdown can make that request.

To paraphrase Lancey Howard, "you didn't even fricking pay the looking price."

edit: I can see how enabling anyone to ask would help prevent collusion though.

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Additionally, all players that called bets at the showdown can be asked to have their hands shown by ANYONE at the table.


[/ QUOTE ]

"the RULE" says that? I don't think the RULE should include the phrase "ANYONE at the table." It should be amended to say "anyone who called the final bet." Why should someone who didn't risk money in the pot be allowed to gain that information? Only people who are in the pot should have the right to ask.

In fact I'm reasonably sure that the rule in my local cardrooms is that way, that only those who participate in the showdown can make that request.

To paraphrase Lancey Howard, "you didn't even fricking pay the looking price."

edit: I can see how enabling anyone to ask would help prevent collusion though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, that is the RULE at most cardrooms (every cardroom I've ever played in and I've played at 10 or so), ANYONE at the table.

Here's the link to Robert's Rules of Poker, go to "The Showdown", rule 5.

http://www.homepokertourney.com/rules_roberts.htm#_Toc64472012

Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.

[Big O]

I think you should show as well if you get called at the end. This is the way it should be played.

[LetsRock]

The only reason a player has to show cards is if they want to contest the pot.

Anyone can ask to see other hands, but not just for information - this rule is designed to detect collusion. IF there's no evidence of collusion, there's no need to show cards.

[kasual]

This came up in my home game a few months ago:

Heads-up pot on the river, I make a sizeable bet at the huge pot knowing the only way i can win the pot is straight bluff and force the other player out. After what seemed to be an hour of him thinking about his move, he calls. Knowing there is really no way i can win the pot, I muck my cards. A player not involved with the hand screams, "YOU HAVE TO SHOW YOUR CARDS!"

I replied, "I'm giving him the pot. Plus, you're not in the hand, I do not have to show you anything."

Well, the player that was in the pot, was happy to take it down and not see my cards.

After some research, I did find out that the player, and only the player, that was involved with the pot has a right to see the cards, since he called. But noone else at the table is allowed to request seeing the cards if they were not involved with the final pot.

Don't know if that is 100% the correct rule, but that's how we play it. Most players are happy with winning the pot. They really don't care what hand you obviously bluffed with.

kas

[Stryfe]

This is exactly why it is considered rude. Your Aces just got busted. No matter how hard you tried to raise, they still called with 2-3 offsuit. You now muck your hand, and it just adds insult to injury. Winning the sizeable pot wasn't enough for these people obviously. Unfortunately, the rule does need to be there to help prevent collusion.

[demonx5]

Poor poker etiquette really ruins the feel of a home game. Ours is pretty decent, although I usually end up pointing out people on a lot of string bets. It's not because they're angle shooting or anything, they're not good enough to read people mid-bet, but it just makes the game feel more realistic rather than a bunch of newbies (which they'll say they certainly are not) still grasping to understand the game.

[smartalecc5]

MY friends and I usually show our cards, but in rule, the loseing player can just say I didnt win and muck his cards face down.