Party 10/20 JJ

[Nate tha' Great]

Party 10/20 short. I raise three limpers in the BB with black JJ. Limpers seem to play okay and I'm thinking about abandoning the table.

Flop A /images/graemlins/heart.gif T /images/graemlins/heart.gif rag /images/graemlins/spade.gif. I bet and limpers in UTG and MP call.

Turn Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif. I check, UTG bets, MP folds. I call.

River blank no flush no str8 I check and call.

[imitation]

Seems a valid line to minimise variance and get to SD as cheaply as possible. Shown ATo?

[Peter_rus]

[ QUOTE ]
Limpers seem to play okay

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it a joke? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

The rest seem nice except maybe river call - i think it's borderline depending on opponent you facing.

[schubes]

[ QUOTE ]
The rest seem nice except maybe river call - i think it's borderline depending on opponent you facing.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think the river is less borderline than the turn - he has to check-call. A missed draw or maybe a T will often bet here. A Q may check behind. He doesn't have to be winning too often to show a profit with this pot size.

[Peter_rus]

On turn he catched straight draw which if completed in many situations may be good.

[schubes]

Not so simple. He's getting 6.5:1 odds to call, and it's 6.66:1 to hit 6 outs. His JJ may be the best hand, but his 2 outs for a set may not be clean. It's borderline, and calling, betting out, or folding is more dependent on your opponent than the river action, IMO.

[1800GAMBLER]

Once i don't get raised on the flop that signs me up for betting the turn.

Yes, you did raise out the BB but they just can't help raising top pair regardless of how decent they play.

[joker122]

I like it except for the river call. On the turn, even though your hand is worth a call you can't bet it yourself because you have outs and need to see the river as cheaply as possible. Against a complete unknown I call the river, but you say your opponent appears to play decent...I think I fold the river. Then again, I hear 10/20 is a whole other level of aggression than 5/10.

[Nate tha' Great]

UTG turned over K /images/graemlins/spade.gif 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif and my hand was good. He immediately began berating me for calling down "with two overs on the board". I began re-berating him for calling the flop bet "with two unders and a backdoor buttshot".

The discussion disintegrated from there.

I offered to play him heads up. He suggested that we play a $15K freeze out. I told him that I did not have that sort of time, but immediately added $15K to my table buy-in anyway. He counter-added $15K. I created a $15/$30 private table, sat down with $5K, and invited him to it. He myseriously left our 6-handed table, then after a few minutes floating in the ether, sat down at the private table with his own $5K. At the same time, he re-appeared at the original table with a regular buy-in.

We began playing heads up. He had a couple of obvious exploitable flaws - weak-tight play in the face of aggression, and overaggressive play in the face of passivity. At one point he raised from the SB and I called down the whole way with K-rag on a 333xx board. My hand was good. He did not like this.

Unfortunately, he hit a couple of hands and was up about 8 BB after 20 minutes, at which point he left.

[Zele]

[ QUOTE ]
Seems a valid line to minimise variance and get to SD as cheaply as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Worst possible reason for any poker decision. This kind of thinking is really dangerous.

[Zele]

That story is very satisfying.

But if your jaw is still clenched when you finish your session, you should have just ignored the fool.

Nonetheless, cheers. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[jujujaja34]

Nate,

Ahhhhh, nothing like a good pissing contest. Well done, sir.

jujujaja34

[imitation]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Seems a valid line to minimise variance and get to SD as cheaply as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Worst possible reason for any poker decision. This kind of thinking is really dangerous.

[/ QUOTE ]

I might have over simplified what i was trying to say, what I meant was that obviously he had some kind of a read which suggested there was a good enough chance he was ahead to stay in the hand but didn't feel comfortable betting the turn and folding to a raise from this player. If he thinks he's got the best of it on the turn for sure then I think it should have been a bet out.

[Zele]

Yes, I like that reasoning much better. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ChicagoTroy]

I know little about heads-up play, but for a $15K freezeout against an inferior opponent, wouldn't you make the time?

[chio]

since when is it our main goal to "minimize variance" during a hand?

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
I know little about heads-up play, but for a $15K freezeout against an inferior opponent, wouldn't you make the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's 500 BB heads up in a limit game ... I imagine it would take several days to complete.

I mean, if the guy was serious then I'd consider clearing out my schedule and making time for him, but I thought it was a deliberately idle threat, hence my $15K buy-in at the table.