hand anaylsis - pocket 5s - getting too tricky?

[Keres]

4 Places where I'd appreciate you opinion

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif. CO posts a blind of $2.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO (poster) checks, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Decision #1 Call here? Figure I'm halfway in, there's a few limpers and if I flop a set I'm in position to do some damage.

Flop: (14 SB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, <font color="CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO calls.

Decision #2 Is a call here sound? Probably not. Button more than likely has a strong hand, if someone has a 4 I may get popped again. Enough players and bets to make a call here worth while?

Turn: (9 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, CO checks, <font color="CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls, CO calls.

Decision #3 My ship has come in. Checked on the flop planning on check raising. Button bets and instead of raising I call hoping to get the two additional callers maybe chasing a flush or straight. A reraise I thought would've folded them both and just get one more bet from the button.

River: (13 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Decision #4 Disaster. Checked hoping that someone made their flush, had a 4, or that button would bet again. Checked all around. Flush was unlikely - though at 2/4 possible, 4 was possible, and if I thought for a second, would realize that button probably not going to bet with 3 other players in, who'd likely only call if he was beat. So, obvious bet on the river here?

Final Pot: 13 BB

will post results in a followup.

[Chuckles1248]

I think you check-raise the flop with your overpair, to see where you stand, then bet out the turn when your boat hits. As you played it, I think you check-raise the turn then bet out the river, there's just too much chance of no one hitting to try to check-raise the river.

[MoreWineII]

Ack, disaster is right. Bet that river for the love of all that is holy.

I like it up to that point though. I like the turn call.

[Keres]

Results below:
Hero shows 5s 5c (full house, fives full of fours).
BB shows 2d 2s (full house, twos full of fours)!!!!
CO shows 8d Js (two pair, eights and fours).
Button shows Ac As (two pair, aces and fours).
Outcome: Hero wins 13 BB.

I wasn't the only one caught up with trying to be tricky. Other player flopped a full-house and I probably could've capped the turn and possibly the river. The guy with Aces would've probably stayed in for a few bets on the turn.

Asked the other full house why he didn't bet. His response was that he too was hoping one of the players behind him would bet. His mistake saved him quite a few BBs.

Right on about needing to bet the river, will have to make sure not to make that mistake again. This could've been a very very profitable hand instead of just a decent one.

[TheHip41]

This post hurts to read. Yes, I understand your want to c/r the hell out of everyone. But think about it. If you c/r the turn, anyone with a 4 or two hearts will probably call you. This means that you get them to pay two bets when they are drawing nearly dead. C/r the turn, bet the river.

Derek

[Whistler]

thats a huge mistake imo, not check raising that flop, Hyooge. I check raise the flop, call the raise, hit my two outer, then bleed the suckers dry.

[brian0729]

Check fold the flop.

As it were, I would have bet out on the turn trying to trap players between myself and the button. Hopefully you will get the chance to three bet someone. Plus the flush draws will all pay two or three bets to see the river.

[Keres]

[ QUOTE ]
thats a huge mistake imo, not check raising that flop, Hyooge. I check raise the flop, call the raise, hit my two outer, then bleed the suckers dry.

[/ QUOTE ]

when to c/r the flop is something I'm still trying to work out and is probably the biggest hole in my game. It's something I don't understand - though I'm starting to do more of it. c/r'ing the flop is actually pretty rare at 1/2 and 2/4. in a typical LL game, a c/r by a blind almost always means two pair. most LL players wouldn't c/r the flop if they hit trips, waiting for the turn instead.

by c/r'ing on the flop in this hand I'd be trying to represent the 3rd four or for another reason?

The only reasons I currently c/r from ep is if I'm trying to knock out the draws (or at least punish them for staying in) with a strong hand or, if the button or co is habitually trying to steal a pot by betting I'll pop em and follow it with a bet on the turn.

The more advanced reasons for c/r'ing the flop elude me and its something I'll need to know before moving up to 5/10.

[Keres]

[ QUOTE ]
Check fold the flop.

I would have bet out on the turn trying to trap players between myself and the button.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the line of thinking I needed. Obvious now but that didn't occur to me.

[brian0729]

That's the line of thinking I needed. Obvious now but that didn't occur to me.

Your position to the raiser or aggressor, plus the players involved between you and him/her(them) should always be a very important factor in your decision. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[MAxx]

pf, easy and correct call.

flop- tougher

turn- ok... maybe lead out

river- go time, no checking here... not enough turn action to even begin to consider checking.

[nepenthe]

Checkraise the flop with the intention of getting it heads-up. If shown aggression, fold it then or fold the turn unimproved. Having played it as you did, you must bet out the turn. People will think you're betting your turned flush draw, or maybe the 4. But no one will assume you just caught your 2-outer for a near invincible hand.