Home Poker Games - A small Rant

[slamdunkpro]

Just as an aside to all of raiding going on in home poker. I wonder how many people stop and truly appreciate the work and expense that goes into hosting a home poker game.

I not only bought chips, but built tables and the facility that we had our games in. As the host I had to worry about keeping the game full, friendly, and secure. In addition I was providing drinks and snacks to all the players.

You have to keep your facility clean; you have to listen to the endless streams of complaints disguised as “suggestions”: why don’t we play {more/less} {stud/hold’em/Omaha} for {bigger/smaller stakes}?? And so on and so on.

In the end – at least in my case even if I took a MASSIVE rake, I’d be in the red for more than 2 years.

Why did I do it? Because my friends and I like playing cards in a live environment.

So the next home game you are at – remember to thank the host/hostess for all the crap they go through and the risk they run every time you “shuffle up and deal” in their game.

[JayCo]

2 ideas for you:

1) We instituted a "Whiners Tax" in our home game. Anyone could call a Whine on a player who was both ahead and moaned about a bad beat/play- the offending Whiner paid the guy down the most $ at the time a buck. 2x in one hour, the Whine Tax became $2, etc. This could be expanded to tax any & all whines for $1 to go into the "Pizzabeer Fund".

2) We also have a Socialist/Communist house rule of wealth redistribution: Big Winner as of midnight pays for everyone's food & drinks for the night. Spares the host from having to look like a cheap-ass and ask everyone to pitch in $, the guy winning doesn't mind being generous, and losers appreciate the freebie.

[brer]

Even though I look forward to hosting games every week (with the chipset and the table I built, and at my place, etc), I consistently have to check to my temper. Is there something about poker players that they just can't stop complaining?

[toots]

I'm pretty sure there is. I just haven't yet figured out precisely what it is.

[AlphaMeridian]

Interesting, since I'm nearly on the cusp of such a "suggestion" to my home game host that we write down all the rules we play as recently, there have been a number of diagreements over play. Then again, reading your post, I'm not quite sure it would be appropriate. How could I make this suggestion in a way that woudln't offend him? (oddly enough, it seems your home game is closer to me than any I have found, do you need another player? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif )

For example, we were playing some NLHE, and since we don't have a lot of chips, rebuys have to be done from someone at the table. I was up at the time, and sold $10 worth of chips to another player, and then put the money in my pocket (not on the table). This spawned a 5 minute argument over if the money in my pocket would play on a potential all in call from me (I didn't want it to, another player wanted it to)

-Alpha

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
For example, we were playing some NLHE, and since we don't have a lot of chips, rebuys have to be done from someone at the table. I was up at the time, and sold $10 worth of chips to another player, and then put the money in my pocket (not on the table). This spawned a 5 minute argument over if the money in my pocket would play on a potential all in call from me (I didn't want it to, another player wanted it to)

-Alpha

[/ QUOTE ]


this is bogus. you have to keep it on the table.

unless your game allows cashing out money in the middle of the game. if it does, that's one strange game, but if it does then what you did wasn't wrong.

[AlphaMeridian]

Which is fine, I guess. No one really knew. However, defining a rule about it would prevent such arguments in the future. If i'm wrong, i'm wrong, that's fine. I'm more interested in the long term, and I don't want to seem like an errant complainer if i direct the host to the rule sheets at homepokertourneys.com to print and adopt.

-Alpha

[The Armchair]

The problem you're having is balancing "full" with "secure." Obviously, as you add more players, you go further and further away from your core group of friends. Our rules are simply that in order to play w/us, you have to have either played with us twice before, or you have to be brought by someone who has.

Recording your rules is a good idea. Another idea is to enlist one of your closer friends, and as people arrive, as him to go out on a beer run and hand him a 20 or something like that. Have him ask if anyone else wants anything. They may follow suit with cash too.

I'd also advise strongly against using your own items (like your chips) at other people's games. I was in a situation last week where, 90 min before I had to go, the group voted to play a low-stakes NLHE tourney. Being down a bit at a rather week limit table, I had a lot of reasons to be against it -- especially given my time pressure. They also voted against rebuys. 20 minutes later I was out, but because they were using my chips, I ended up sitting around for the rest of the night. I could have done the playground-boor maneuver and refused to play the tourney ("okay, I'll leave then"). . . right.

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]

I'd also advise strongly against using your own items (like your chips) at other people's games. I was in a situation last week where, 90 min before I had to go, the group voted to play a low-stakes NLHE tourney. Being down a bit at a rather week limit table, I had a lot of reasons to be against it -- especially given my time pressure. They also voted against rebuys. 20 minutes later I was out, but because they were using my chips, I ended up sitting around for the rest of the night. I could have done the playground-boor maneuver and refused to play the tourney ("okay, I'll leave then"). . . right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or you could have let someone you know bring the chips back to you when they were done?

[Lottery Larry]

"I not only bought chips, but built tables and the facility that we had our games in. As the host I had to worry about keeping the game full, friendly, and secure. In addition I was providing drinks and snacks to all the players."

The first few things were your choice. The refreshments, that was dumb. I have everyone contribute a set amount that goes to refreshments and eqpt replacement, to which I also contribute equally. That way it only costs me a little to host the games.

"You have to keep your facility clean; you have to listen to the endless streams of complaints disguised as “suggestions”: why don’t we play {more/less} {stud/hold’em/Omaha} for {bigger/smaller stakes}?? And so on and so on."

So?

"Why did I do it? Because my friends and I like playing cards in a live environment."
Okay, so you invested in a hobby because you wanted to. Again, your choice. If you wanted people to help out with costs, ask them to contribute to 30-40$ of the total cost for future purchases. the initial ones are long gone.

"So the next home game you are at – remember to thank the host/hostess for all the crap they go through and the risk they run every time you “shuffle up and deal” in their game."
Now that sentiment I can get behind. If there's a risk involved, you know you're taking it so there isn't much to say

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting, since I'm nearly on the cusp of such a "suggestion" to my home game host that we write down all the rules we play as recently, there have been a number of diagreements over play.

[/ QUOTE ]
This isn’t a whiny complaint – it’s a legitimate issue that needs to be resolved. I was referring to things like the clown that came up to me one night and wanted me to change the molds in my ice cube maker because the cubes were too big for the glasses. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Lottery Larry]

Tell HIM to bring bigger glasses then.

You actually put up with this stuff?

[2planka]

My response to such "suggestions:"

Thanks for bringing up the point about the ice cubes. Next time we play, you're the Ice Man. Feel free to bring enough ice for everyone.

Seems to work.

[The Armchair]

Last time that happened, they got lost in a cab /images/graemlins/smile.gif

The real issue is that they'll not get returned in time. I play a lot of "pick up" games -- someone will email our list, ask who can play, and an impromptu game will form. Oftentimes, the group is entirely different from the previous one. So, I'd be unable to use my chips. That'd be... silly.

[Lottery Larry]

I'm in a similar situation, so I know what you mean (I wouldn't wait for people to bring me my chips, either)

[dcJohn]

I can understand your frustration if you didn't know about the rule, but this really is very, very common; I wouldn't put it in the list of things that need to be clarified.

Even in limit play at casinos, where cashing out entirely at any time is possible, if someone buys chips from you then the $ stays on the table (at least where I've played).

[LetsRock]

I can't agree more. I help run a home game. Four of us have bought chips, built tables yada, yada, yada. We have nearly 40 players on the invite list. We play weekly and usually fill one or two tables every week.

We're lucky to have great group of people and the core group is really supportive and great.

My biggest pet peave is those who wait until the last minute to respond to invites. It seems that a lot of people can't commit to something early on and it drives me nuts.

They just don't understand or appreciate how much preparation needs to go into a game, especially when you may need to set up the room for as many as 3 tables.

Appreciate your home game hosts. They're not getting anything out of it except for a fun game. Don't make it hard for them to have fun or may find yourself uninvited.

[AlphaMeridian]

I guess. I'll just be more selective about selling chips to people who want to rebuy then. I mean, if I can't take the money off the table, then it just becomes a liability in so far as I can't cut it up and use fractions of it for play.

Learn something new every day, i guess.

-Alpha

[LetsRock]

YOu should have very explicit written rules. If you're afraid of offending your host, write them your self and ask if these "might" work. There's just too many versions of house rules to not have something solid in place.

They were right to give you grief about taking money off the table. It's pretty standard in a table stakes game that you are not allowed to rat hole your money.

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
My biggest pet peave is those who wait until the last minute to respond to invites. It seems that a lot of people can't commit to something early on and it drives me nuts.


[/ QUOTE ]

One of my favorites along these lines are the ones who call and the conversation goes something like this: Me "hello?" Them "Hey it's Joe Blow, are we on Friday?" Me "Well, yes, didn't you get the e-mail?" Them "Sure but I just wanted to check - 3/6 Hold'em this week right?" Me "yes" Them "Ya know , I've got 5 or 6 friends who just love playing tournaments and would show up in a heartbeat if we had a tournament" Me "That's great but I've already announced 3/6 for Friday" Them " Yes but how many responses have you gotton? one or two?" Me" it's only Tuesday" Them" Exactly! Let's change to a tournament format for this week and all these people will show up" [after more badgering I change the format and send out new email - response is weak]

Game day is a disaster with only 4 players showing up. A quick call to Joe results in: Me"hello Joe where are you guys?" Them " Oh, didn't I tell you? There is a 3/6 game right down the street from me that you guys would kill, so my friends and I had to support our Friend down the street.

[Lottery Larry]

[ QUOTE ]
I can't agree more. I help run a home game. Four of us have bought chips, built tables yada, yada, yada. We have nearly 40 players on the invite list. We play weekly and usually fill one or two tables every week.

We're lucky to have great group of people and the core group is really supportive and great.

My biggest pet peave is those who wait until the last minute to respond to invites. It seems that a lot of people can't commit to something early on and it drives me nuts.

They just don't understand or appreciate how much preparation needs to go into a game, especially when you may need to set up the room for as many as 3 tables.

Appreciate your home game hosts. They're not getting anything out of it except for a fun game. Don't make it hard for them to have fun or may find yourself uninvited.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen to all of that. Most of my regulars are the same way, but I have similar problems getting RSVPs (have to do repeated mailings, always have a few no-replies and often some no-shows).

I've found that this is not endemic to the poker games, but instead seems to be a general lack of regard for RSVP'ing to invitations of any type. I run into this all of the time at work, for other functions, and so on.
Maybe I'm old school, but this falls under basic manners in my mind.

Well, if it were easy, anyone could do it I guess? Props to the long-suffering hosts of the world...

[slamdunkpro]

Maybe what we need at some point is a home game/tournament hosts only tournament. (Now if we could just find some sucker to host it /images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

[Lottery Larry]

Just what we need- 20 players all coming in with a different set of rules, screaming "Mine's the best!".... EVERYONE wanting to be a table captain... constant comments such as "Well, in MY game we serve the fois gras with Camembert, not THAT cheap stuff!"...

Not to mention the travel costs are quite a rake to overcome!

Maybe we can each rake our games and pay for a traveling therapist, who can listen to US whine for an hour!

[2planka]

Thanks for offering, slam. I'm pretty sure I can make it. I also know about 57 guys who will definately be there. What kind of beer are you serving? Do you have anything to eat? How about we play some Omaha after the second level? Deck change, please. Anyone mind if I smoke/chew/spit? Nice place you have here. Bet you paid a fortune for it. You need insurance? I know a guy....

[slamdunkpro]

Has anyone ever told you the benefits of AMWAY??? /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[El Dukie]

[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone ever told you the benefits of AMWAY???

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude,

You stole my line!!! I was going to use that one next week at my first SoCal Home Game.... LMAO /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Al Mirpuri]

I used to go to a home game. The guy thought he was doing us a big favour hosting it. However, he manipulated the rules to suit himself and the rest of us had to make bus/car journeys to get there and get home.

You are just making it easier on yourself. If you still think you are a martyr then let someone else host it. If no one is willing to host it then let the game die.

[Lottery Larry]

"I used to go to a home game. The guy thought he was doing us a big favour hosting it. However, he manipulated the rules to suit himself and the rest of us had to make bus/car journeys to get there and get home."

And it was really YOU doing a favor for HIM by showing up? While his attitude was evidently bad and his rule manipulation garbage was unacceptable, you aren't setting a warm and fuzzy standard either.
If he were a good poker host, people would be glad to come. But getting a game to work is not a one-way street either, Mr Leech.

"You are just making it easier on yourself."
Have you ever hosted a game for a large group on a long-term basis that involved anything greater than a "friends come on over, bring some snacks, I'll pull out the Bicycle chips and cards" effort?
It doesn't sound like it, or you wouldn't have made that stupid statement. Or maybe you've never been to a good home game and can claim ignorance.

"If you still think you are a martyr then let someone else host it. "
You think he might not do that if someone else was running a regular game and maintaining it? Sure, hosting may not be entirely selfless and it may appeal to the control side of the host... but "martyr" is a bit strong, no?

"If no one is willing to host it then let the game die"
That will sure help everyone out who's looking for a game. Love your sense of community spirit. Maybe options aren't as flexible as yours are.

[Al Mirpuri]

[ QUOTE ]
"I used to go to a home game. The guy thought he was doing us a big favour hosting it. However, he manipulated the rules to suit himself and the rest of us had to make bus/car journeys to get there and get home."

And it was really YOU doing a favor for HIM by showing up? While his attitude was evidently bad and his rule manipulation garbage was unacceptable, you aren't setting a warm and fuzzy standard either.
If he were a good poker host, people would be glad to come. But getting a game to work is not a one-way street either, Mr Leech.

"You are just making it easier on yourself."
Have you ever hosted a game for a large group on a long-term basis that involved anything greater than a "friends come on over, bring some snacks, I'll pull out the Bicycle chips and cards" effort?
It doesn't sound like it, or you wouldn't have made that stupid statement. Or maybe you've never been to a good home game and can claim ignorance.

"If you still think you are a martyr then let someone else host it. "
You think he might not do that if someone else was running a regular game and maintaining it? Sure, hosting may not be entirely selfless and it may appeal to the control side of the host... but "martyr" is a bit strong, no?

"If no one is willing to host it then let the game die"
That will sure help everyone out who's looking for a game. Love your sense of community spirit. Maybe options aren't as flexible as yours are.

[/ QUOTE ]

This guy does not have to travel for the game and can call it off whenever he wants for any reason on any particular game night. Moreover, he is probably a winning player and that more than anything is being facilitated.

[slamdunkpro]

[ QUOTE ]
This guy does not have to travel for the game and can call it off whenever he wants for any reason on any particular game night. Moreover, he is probably a winning player and that more than anything is being facilitated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Al,

Your last 2 posts indicate a lack of experience in dealing with home games from a host’s perspective, let me try and enlighten you.

First my post was not intended as a “woe is me – I’m a Martyr” post. It was more on the lighter side of home games and, by the way hosts do put in a lot of effort and a thank you now and then is not out of line. Most people got this.

In my case, you are incorrect – I DID have to travel, as our room was located some distance from my house. So this should put me on the same footing as the rest of the players who braved the elements to attend our games.

Second, a host of an established game can’t “just call it off”. If you do that once or twice your game is history. Once a game grows to a certain point it tends to take on a life of it’s own and self perpetuate.

Lastly – what does being a winning player or not have to do with anything. If you’re going to host a game, odds are you’re going to do it win or lose.