99 in MP1

[Fiddler]

SB seemed to be an ace-anything player, not sure about the others.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Good or bad? I had planned to raise the turn if no scare card fell.

[Sent]

Why not raise the flop?

-Sent

[scotnt73]

raise the flop. you have 2 players trapped.

[Fiddler]

Assuming a raise would fold the button will I win with that flop more than 25% of the time? I felt like any over card could beat me and wanted to see the turn first.

[Sarge85]

Some have said raise the flop - I disagree.

Your goal for raising the flop would be to push out possible overcards, of those that haven't put any money into the pot yet. - That means you're only trying to push out one player - the button. Yes you have a good hand, and probably the best hand at the moment. However you have a very very vunerable hand. If button has an Ace, Heart, a 4, or maybe even a 6, chances are he's coming along anyway.

If you raise the Flop - the players that are trapped will still probably call the raise.

Your position to the flop bettor is a bit pooey, in that you won't be able to protect your hand.

I think the line you took was good for this hand.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[scotnt73]

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming a raise would fold the button will I win with that flop more than 25% of the time? I felt like any over card could beat me and wanted to see the turn first.

[/ QUOTE ]

you are raising because the straight and flush draws are going to pay you all the way down.

[Fiddler]

That was my thinking. I would have raised the flop if there were two players to act behind me instead of only one.

[ErrantNight]

you are also raising because you raised preflop and you had the best hand then, and you have the best hand now

[flexus]

Your goal for raising the flop would be to push out possible overcards

Or to make the pot larger when you are a favourite to win the pot?

[Sarge85]

[ QUOTE ]
Your goal for raising the flop would be to push out possible overcards

Or to make the pot larger when you are a favourite to win the pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

With 4 others in the pot, on a draw heavy board, how much of a favorite do you think our hero is to ram and jam the flop with a pair of 9's?

Would it be better to pop it for a raise on the turn if a brick falls?


Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[Trix]

I dont think that a reason to raise the flop. 99 isnt exactly a monster you wanna trap with.

[scotnt73]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think that a reason to raise the flop. 99 isnt exactly a monster you wanna trap with.

[/ QUOTE ]

i would feel pretty good about that flop personally.

[Sarge85]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I dont think that a reason to raise the flop. 99 isnt exactly a monster you wanna trap with.

[/ QUOTE ]

i would feel pretty good about that flop personally.

[/ QUOTE ]

Scott,

If I'm looking to "trap" people with this board, and I'm the hero, I'd rather hand AX/images/graemlins/heart.gif than a wired pair of 9's in this situation.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[flexus]

Would it be better to pop it for a raise on the turn if a brick falls?

Isn't that the sort of thing we should do with an overpair on a monotone flop?

I do think I understand the concept of waiting for the turn to raise when the board is full of draws. I also have a feeling this concept is often overused. Might be wrong though.

[Joe Tall]

you are raising because the straight and flush draws are going to pay you all the way down.

And raising a blank on the turn is not going to do this?

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Joe Tall]

Or to make the pot larger when you are a favourite to win the pot?

Why not raise the turn, when you are a larger favorite, charging them double?

All the arguments to raise the flop are better reason to raise the turn when a blank falls.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Joe Tall]

Very well played Fid.

Welcome to the forum,
Joe Tall

[Valuebettingtheriver]

Well played. Raising on the flop wouldnt protect your hand. It might actually hurt since players on weak draws would have the correct pot odds to call your raise. The best way to protect your hand here is on the turn, but since no one bet into you, betting out was the best play.

[GuyOnTilt]

For those of you advocating calling the flop,

How high would your pocket pair have to be to change your flop call into a raise, assuming you had a heart? Would you raise TT? How about JJ? QQ? KK? AA? What about without a heart?

I'm not saying calling isn't correct; just want to make sure you're thinking about things like this.

GoT

[Fiddler]

I would raise with all of the hands you list. I would also have raised the flop in this 99 hand if I had the chance to make more than one player face two bets.

At least I would have before all these replies, now I'm not so sure.

[Sarge85]

[ QUOTE ]

How high would your pocket pair have to be to change your flop call into a raise, assuming you had a heart? Would you raise TT? How about JJ? QQ? KK? AA? What about without a heart?
GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

Good Question GoT. - Holding the heart is very important. - no sense in improving, if it improves someone else even more.

I'm looking at this hand as a hand that needs a fair amount of protection, and is pretty vulnerable. Raising on the flop (in relation to the bettor) would be for value only - that being the case I'd raise with AA/images/graemlins/heart.gif only - until I saw the turn card. With Aces I get the benefit of a gutshot as well, so there is added value.

Ironically, I would have more reason to raise with JJ or QQ, since they are more vulnerable to overcards. Still - my relation to the flop bettor is hindering my ability to protect my hand here --- even if they did have over cards. I think my "value" would come on the turn for two bets, when a juicy brick falls /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[spacemonkey57]

Raise the flop. Hopefully you can push out some overcards to your nines. Other than that it looks good.

[Sarge85]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop. Hopefully you can push out some overcards to your nines. Other than that it looks good.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's only one person after him..., anyone who has put in bet thus far, will (and should) put one more in if it's raised back to them for just one more bet.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif