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View Full Version : How to proceed with this?


Saborion
08-15-2004, 11:37 PM
Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG is very loose pre-flop. Any two suited, ANY connectors (45o), any ace and so on. Mostly passive, sort of easy to read. Often call all the way to the river and then folds.
CO is also very loose pre-flop. Any two suited and semi-low medium connectors, any ace etc. Neither passive nor aggressive.
BB didn't seem to be too bad. Unfortunately all I have on him.

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, CO calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (4.20 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, CO calls.

River: (10.20 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, CO checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG folds, CO calls.

Final Pot: 12.20 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 12.20 BB, between CO and Hero.</font>

Mostly I'm a bit curious about the flop. In a ring game I wouldn't bet here without a backdoor flush-draw and with players that might release easily. But I'm not TOO experienced playing shorthanded. Is this often a bet? Always? What if I had been second last to act?

Nemesis
08-15-2004, 11:40 PM
I like the check on the flop, betting isn't gonna kill the odds on a gutshot even so why not take the free card and see where it goes. Turn raise seems mandatory, and value bet the river.

Saborion
08-16-2004, 09:39 AM
CO had 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and MHIG.

spydog
08-16-2004, 09:43 AM
You played it perfectly, IMO. I also would check this flop with 3 opponents, as you are probably behind somebody who caught part of the flop (especially based on your reads). With 1 or 2 opponents I usually pound away at this flop.

chio
08-16-2004, 10:01 AM
i like your line a lot, allows you to raise perfectly like you did on the turn to protect your hand, and if you don't hit allows you to evaluate the action in front of you on the turn before folding or whatever

and probably nobody is folding that flop

fyodor
08-16-2004, 10:56 AM
Even with 3 opponents I bet this flop pretty much all the time. I may be ahead right now. The bet may cause one or more of my opponents to fold who otherwise could have drawn out on me. If I have improved on the turn the flop bet has already started building the pot for me. If I don't improve on the turn the flop bet probably bought me a free look at the river.

The typical Party 5/10 is loose passive. If the table is aggressive then a lot of these reasons to bet go down the tubes.

Zele
08-16-2004, 11:22 AM
I'd probably bet the flop. You still can easily have the best hand, and you might thin the field. Of course, there's no way you're going to win it right there, so it's not majorly incorrect to check through. But I'd bet.

Schneids
08-16-2004, 11:33 AM
When in position I bet when out of position I check. Fyodor's reasons are pretty much in line for mine when I do bet. Conversely with KQ here I'd almost always check.

Saborion
08-16-2004, 12:22 PM
Got it. I've used the "bet the flop unimproved last to act (or second last to act to maybe buy the button) for those exact reasons. Was a bit unsure about it right here though.

And I assume you'd be more inclined to check behind with KQ because you will lose to an unimproved A-high if it would go to showdown, right?

Edit: Actually, after thinking about this a bit more, are you sure a bet on the flop is good? Not saying it's not, just making sure that my thinking (which will be included below) isn't f*cked up.

It's very unlikely that we'll take it down on the flop, given the nature of the player I'm up against (and a flop as drawish as this). So a flop bet will
1: build the pot for me when I do hit on the turn, and
2: possibly buy me a free card on the turn, if I opt to take it.
Just as fyodor said.

Ok, cool. But if I choose not to bet the flop and hit on the turn, I'll be able to raise and charge the draws/overcards the maximum. Isn't that also attractive? Would suck to hit a T and have it bet and raised in front of you though.

Anyway, is betting the flop still prefered over checking?