"Winning Online Poker" with Chris Moneymaker DVD commercial [Archive]

bwana devil

08-16-2004, 11:50 AM

my only critcism is, "why didn't he come out w/ this sooner?"

if i were him, i would have cranked out a book and dvd deal and whatever else people wanted me to promote soon after the airing of WSOP last year. how about an oakley sunglasses ad? i think he could have benefited more if he did it during his WSOP reign, rather than being "last year's winner."

but hey, better late than never. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

bwana

Sponger15SB

08-16-2004, 11:51 AM

bwana devil

08-16-2004, 11:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I was seriously cracking up at the lines they have on the site. They call him the most respected online player in the world, and say that he will teach you how to win from skill and not have to rely on luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

i haven't even looked at the site, but what do you expect? he made a dvd and some company is trying to promote it. moneymaker surely didn't write that line. some psuedo-marketing department came up w/ that for sure. i think it would be fairer to judge moneymaker on what he has to say on the video rather than what's on the box.

tpir90036

08-16-2004, 12:05 PM

i almost want to buy this thing just to see what is on it. hopefully it's on-line for pirating puposes somewhere. i mean, it's got to be just one long pokerstars commercial, right?

the sweet graphics of the 74o raking a pot as they talk about pros being able to win with any hand is amazing as well.

cferejohn

08-16-2004, 07:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i almost want to buy this thing just to see what is on it. hopefully it's on-line for pirating puposes somewhere. i mean, it's got to be just one long pokerstars commercial, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am kind of curious about it. I mean, I have a hard time imagining it will have anything to offer to anyone on 2+2, but I imagine it will have decent, if generic, advice (i.e. "don't play crappy hands" "try to understand how your opponents play and adjust accordingly" "use the table statistics for game selection" "don't play too big for your bankroll", etc etc). In otherwords, the same stuff that is available in any number of books/websites/magazines, and which a sizable chunk of players apperantly don't know about, don't read, or just ignore.

If I was Moneymaker, I'd sign any poker endorsement deal that came my way, and I certainly can't fault him for putting out a poker advice video.

I mean, Fossilman is putting out a book, and I certainly hope no one here begrudges him that. Admittedly, we "know* him quite a bet better than we know Moneymaker, and I have every reason to think the book will be excellent, but if he had not won the main event, he would not be in nearly the position that he is to market it.

I can't imagine anyone could cram enough info into a DVD to be useful anyway. Even if he talks for a solid hour, I have to imagine that everything he says could be fit into a 20 page booklet, and that's just not going to contain anything but basic strategy.

italianstang

08-16-2004, 10:14 PM

How do you know that no one would buy an Italianstang DVD? Anyway, I think that Greg Raymer is a great player, I have read some of his posts, watched him play on Pokerstars, etc. The idea that Moneymaker is a complete tool was thoroughly cemented in my mind this year when I was at the Horseshoe watching some of the main event WSOP and Moneymaker busted out and the ESPN cameras followed him along and watch the elevator door close on him and he spouted some cheesy line.

And before you can all respond to my negativity and dislike of the guy I know that I don't have a WSOP bracelet, I know I don't know him personally, I know that no one is asking me for a book/DVD deal, I know I don't have 2.5 million dollars, but I stil think he is a tool.

screw "the crew"

08-16-2004, 10:45 PM

"I'm not going to quit my jobs and become a professional poker player."
-Chris Moneymaker

Now there's an article in the KC Star (I read it online, but for some reason the 2nd time I clicked on it from Card Player, KC Star is making me sign up) that the sonofabitch is becoming a pro player...well he's off to a good start, boy did he cash like crazy at this years WSOP...he even sucks at blind man's bluff...go Phil Gordon!...and also has anyone noticed Lon McEachern extremely sucking up to Clonie during blind man's bluff...she hasn't exactly stopped terrorism...just my 2 cents

screw "the crew"

MarkL444

08-17-2004, 02:34 AM

Correct me if Im wrong as Ive only seen the commercial once. I thought it said that it comes with the DVD, a copy of StatKing, and Turbo Texas Holdem all for 20 bucks. I thought TTHE was like 90 or something.

stupidsucker

08-17-2004, 03:24 AM

More then likely its a trial version of Stat King, and only a half version of TTH.

They are selling you more commercials. No doubt MM will have spent 20-30 minutes talking about the importance of keeping good records, and maybe throw in the idea of running simulations to help you understand the oods a little better. (and to do these things let us introduce to you TTH and StatKing!)

MrGo

08-17-2004, 12:06 PM

You can't fault the guy for cashing in on his success.

Who cares if his WSOP win was a fluke? Who cares if it wasn't? Fact is he's marketing himself very well and making tons of money off of it. Good for him.

If you won the WSOP and was offered a DVD series, would you take it?

Chad T

08-17-2004, 12:29 PM

I think it's very smart and Moneymaker isn't the only one cashing in on the ESPN thing. Hellmuth has his DVD set out. Lederer has one out as well and people are writing books left and right. They are just trying to make some extra cash for what they do.

Of course Moneymaker will just take this money and probably donate to someone else at a poker table, but that is his profession for now. Personally, I think he is an average player at best and can't hang with the real pros.

I would like to see on the video Moneymaker saying, "Go ahead and call this all-in...put your tournament on the line. Remember rule #4 from this DVD...THE RIVER IS YOUR FRIEND!!"

BeerMoney

08-17-2004, 12:33 PM

How 'bout an ItialanStang weightlifting DVD? That would be so awesome. I know I'd insist everyone at the local gym buy one if they want real results.

cferejohn

08-17-2004, 02:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Of course Moneymaker will just take this money and probably donate to someone else at a poker table, but that is his profession for now. Personally, I think he is an average player at best and can't hang with the real pros.

[/ QUOTE ]

So the WSOP win plus the second place in the San Jose WPT event weren't enough to convince you he is better than "average"? Geez, what is it going to take?

Not to suggest he is in the same class as Cloutier, Chan, Negraneu, (insert your favorite pro here), but christ you don't need to be those people to succeed; just make sure you aren't playing against them too often.

I really have to imagine he's better than the "average" player these days in any given sattelite-riffic $5K-10K event. In a smaller field composed mostly of pros, I don't like his chances, but in these events with lots of online qualifiers and 500+ entrants, I have to imagine he is +EV.

I find the bile directed at Moneymaker quite confusing (not that this post is an example, but there are certainly plenty of them). He has handled his newfound fame about as well as anyone could have imagined, and given all the crap that he must read about himself, I think that shows alot of class.

He's definitely not the worst player to have won the WSOP. Varkoni was clearly worse, and frankly I've never been sold on McEvoy (I've just seen him give lots of questionable advice and seen him make a few pretty dodgy plays online).

tpir90036

08-17-2004, 02:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
but I imagine it will have decent, if generic, advice (i.e. "don't play crappy hands"....)

[/ QUOTE ]
One would think.... but the "good players can win with any hand" line accompanied by the 74o graphic makes me hope there is a "how to bluff like me" section /images/graemlins/wink.gif

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I can't imagine anyone could cram enough info into a DVD to be useful anyway. Even if he talks for a solid hour...

[/ QUOTE ]
He probably just tells you to go read Lee Jones' book and then download PokerStars.

Chad T

08-17-2004, 05:38 PM

I am not saying he is a bad player by any means. It takes some skill and some luck to win a huge even like the Main Event. I am just seeing that Moneymaker plays alot of higher limit games and (not NL) and probably gets handled. I don't think he is a very good limit player.

He has handled his fame very well and seems like a really nice guy. However, if he is good enough to have is own DVD out is another question all together. I am not a McEvoy fan either.

Sponger15SB

08-17-2004, 06:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am not saying he is a bad player by any means. It takes some skill and some luck to win a huge even like the Main Event. I am just seeing that Moneymaker plays alot of higher limit games and (not NL) and probably gets handled. I don't think he is a very good limit player.

He has handled his fame very well and seems like a really nice guy. However, if he is good enough to have is own DVD out is another question all together. I am not a McEvoy fan either.

[/ QUOTE ]

how much limit poker have you seen or heard him playing?

all these people speculating on how good he does in ring games don't know [censored] unless they've played with him for an exended period of time of have firsthand knowledge from him about it.

cferejohn

08-17-2004, 06:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am not saying he is a bad player by any means. It takes some skill and some luck to win a huge even like the Main Event. I am just seeing that Moneymaker plays alot of higher limit games and (not NL) and probably gets handled. I don't think he is a very good limit player.

He has handled his fame very well and seems like a really nice guy. However, if he is good enough to have is own DVD out is another question all together. I am not a McEvoy fan either.

[/ QUOTE ]

how much limit poker have you seen or heard him playing?

all these people speculating on how good he does in ring games don't know [censored] unless they've played with him for an exended period of time of have firsthand knowledge from him about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I have no idea how his limit game is. I mean, I imagine it is at least decent, but whether it is at the level where he can play in the 80/160 (or whatever) at the Bellagio without getting his head handed to him? No idea. I've become something of a tournament specialist. My limit game is rusty enough that I'd probably have a pretty hard time differentiating between a very good limit player and a great limit player anyway.

I can tell you that if *I* won 2.5 million in a big tournament, I'd probably at least take a couple swings at the big limit games, if for no other reason than to say that I did it. I like to think I'd get out and return to $200 sit-n-goes and $150-$500 buy-in online tournaments where I know I have an edge over the field if it became obvious I was outclassed (as I have every reason to suspect I would be)...

stupidsucker

08-17-2004, 06:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
how much limit poker have you seen or heard him playing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ive played 30-60 with him on Stars. Unless he was just dicking around, or has improved greatly...

He wasnt very good at all. I am not a MM naysayer. I think he is a good NL tourney player, but his limit game was far from good. He chased a lot of draws, and called down a lot of hands looking to catch a second pair. His starting hand selection was also loose. Perhaps he was just blowing money on purpose and basking in some fame . Perhaps Stars gave him money and paid him to play for publicity.

More or less the feel I got from his game was.. "I am Chris Moneymaker, you should fold"

Most of the 30-60 players ate him up. Not sure how these games are now, but I had to leave them a year ago because they got waaaay to tight for me to make any money.

stupidsucker

08-17-2004, 06:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
all these people speculating on how good he does in ring games don't know [censored] unless they've played with him for an exended period of time of have firsthand knowledge from him about it

[/ QUOTE ]

This however is also semi-true. I didnt play with him very much. I played with him on about 3 occasions, I never saw him make any money, and he never stayed very long.

I saw enough to know that if he always plays like that then he is hardly a break even player borderline loser. I am sure he has improved, but I was not impressed at all, and I welcome him at my table any day...

Army Eye

08-17-2004, 07:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]

He's definitely not the worst player to have won the WSOP. Varkoni was clearly worse, and frankly I've never been sold on McEvoy (I've just seen him give lots of questionable advice and seen him make a few pretty dodgy plays online).

[/ QUOTE ]

Varkonyi, fine, he's never backed up his result and clearly got hit with the deck.

McEvoy has made a few dodgy plays online? Sheesh.. he does have four bracelets.

Sponger15SB

08-17-2004, 08:27 PM

thanks SS, good to hear from somebody who actually knows what they are talking about, instead of an "i heard from"

i was a moneymaker hater in the beginning, but now i am lodged somewhere in the middle. i think i need to see some more evidence before i commit either way.

-Syk-

08-20-2004, 08:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I was seriously cracking up at the lines they have on the site. They call him the most respected online player in the world, and say that he will teach you how to win from skill and not have to rely on luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

i haven't even looked at the site, but what do you expect? he made a dvd and some company is trying to promote it. moneymaker surely didn't write that line. some psuedo-marketing department came up w/ that for sure. i think it would be fairer to judge moneymaker on what he has to say on the video rather than what's on the box.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't expect anything, but I can surely laugh at something I find funny. I'm not judging Funnymaker either, I'm laughing at what they're saying about him.

Also, why was he trying to act like such a badass on the new coverage? Errrr..

blendedsuit

08-20-2004, 10:51 PM

<font color="blue"> I saw Moneymaker at foxwoods when the WPT was in town. He was playing $5-$5 pot-limit hold'em. It was about 4am, 6 players or so, all with stacks around 3-4 grand. The game pretty much disbanded after moneymaker emptied one guy who couldnt stop betting his bigslick. The board had 4 clubs by the river, and moneymaker called his pot sized bets down on all streets with the pair of 8's he flopped. Moneymaker said he called the guy down because the guy made a move to muck his cards on the flop, but then pulled them back and played. It was a slight movement, about an inch towards the muck.

So next time you see him, throw some false tells his way, and report back how it went. </font>

DontPlayScared

08-23-2004, 03:00 PM

With all the terrible players Moneymaker has helped bring to our various poker rooms, the people on this site should be cutting MM a check each month, not bashing him.

A lot of jealousy around here when the name Moneymaker is mentioned.

bones

08-23-2004, 03:35 PM

The only comparison I can think of is music. Consider us all musicians, at different levels of talent and exposure. Now if Britney Spears put out some product, claiming to be the most talented and respected musician who tours, I think we could all find it humorous. Have we been exposed to all of Britney's musical efforts? No. We've seen a small sampling, but that doesn't make her claim any less amusing.

Of course we all want to win the WSOP. We all wish we could profit from putting out a line of (most likely) mediocre DVDs. I don't think that means any slightly mocking comments towards someone who has both is driven by jealousy. It's just funny.

SixgunSam

08-24-2004, 08:54 AM

I'm sure everyone who bashes Moneymaker could easily outplay him because he won that tournament last year on two hands and pure luck. Right? /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Personally, I fear and respect anyone who won the WSOP.

Sundevils21

08-24-2004, 10:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i was a moneymaker hater in the beginning, but now i am lodged somewhere in the middle. i think i need to see some more evidence before i commit either way.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you used to hate him, now you're somewhere in the middle, and you need a little more evidence before you either go back to hating him or stop hating him. Geeez, what has the man done to deserve *hate*?

BarronVangorToth

08-24-2004, 11:45 AM

He's done nothing to deserve it except win a big event that probably few on this board ever will.

Oh, well, we all know who wins the new WSOP and that'll give folks a new person to "hate" for no reason whatsoever.

Barron Vangor Toth
www.BarronVangorToth.com (http://www.BarronVangorToth.com)