Help Needed

[sublime]

Im not sure if this is the correct forum to put this in, but I prefer posting it where I will recognize who is responding.

See, I have this problem, I cant pay attention all that well. I have never been diagnosed for ADD, but I have never realized it was much of a problem (I have had other issues to worry about growing up /images/graemlins/tongue.gif) until now. For obvious reasons this isnt a great thing for a poker player who is trying to constantly elevate his play to the next level.

Perfect example was my short session(4 hours) at Foxwoods this Saturday (this probelm happens on-line as well, but I dont think it is as bad or as important) When I first sit down I am sharp as a razor. I immediatly focus on whos in the hand/pot size whos behind me etc..

After about 2 hours I realze that I dont even know how many hands the new guys has played in the past hour, but I can tell you how many attractive waitreses there are on the floor and what the occupation is of the 3 guys to my left and 3 to my right. Shoot even when I am IN a hand I am not as in-tune as I would like. Does anybody "suffer" with this? Is there any reading material on the marker to help one "focus" (even if its business related literature) I am not interested in ritalin or anyhting of the sort, just looking to improve my mental edge that I "should" have over inferior players.

Thanks guys /images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[bisonbison]

I'm with you dude. Attractive women are attractive. Your fellow players are sometimes more interesting than their cards. Live poker is boring. Glad I could help.

[sublime]

I'm with you dude. Attractive women are attractive. Your fellow players are sometimes more interesting than their cards. Live poker is boring.

Thanks Pete /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Dude, you coming to Foxwoods? I though I read that, if so we gots to grab some chow.

[bisonbison]

Dude, you coming to Foxwoods?

Not in the foreseeable future. I'd love to, but I 1) don't have the cash and 2) don't have the live roll to really let loose.

[sfer]

I used to turn my chair around when I started to lose focus. The little bit of discomfort would help me pay attention. Now I like it more so I normally play that way, and sometimes I do the opposite (turn the chair forward) when I start slacking. Other than that, I try to always keep track of the size of the pot because it forces me to watch everyone's actions. Sometimes I'll be a smart-ass and toss out comments, which forces me to pay attention too.

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
Nearly all of the time I'll be a smart-ass and toss out comments, which forces me to pay attention too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed your typo.

[Brain]

[ QUOTE ]
I used to turn my chair around when I started to lose focus.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like that idea. I think I'll try that next time I'm down in AC (hopefully in two weekends). Maybe people will think I'm Phil Gordon and that'll help me from ending up even...again. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
After about 2 hours I realze that I dont even know how many hands the new guys has played in the past hour

[/ QUOTE ]

You should make it a point to stand up and take a break away from the table, just for a few minutes, every hour or so. During that time, scope out a waitress, assess how your play has been the during the last hour, assess you ability to maintain your focus. If everything is going good, go back to the table renewed. Be religious about this and you will play well through the entire session.

Stu

[bisonbison]

this probelm happens on-line as well, but I dont think it is as bad or as important

Early this afternoon:

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: bisonbison is MP1 with 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif. Sublime is UTG with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG <font color="purple">(sublime)</font> calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, bisonbison calls, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="666666">2 folds</font>, UTG <font color="purple">(sublime)</font> calls, bisonbison calls.

Flop: (9.33 SB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
sublime checks, <font color="CC3333">bisonbison bets</font>, MP2 calls, Button folds, sublime calls.

Turn: (6.16 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
sublime checks, <font color="CC3333">bisonbison bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">sublime 3-bets</font>, bisonbison folds, <font color="CC3333">MP2 caps</font>, sublime calls.

River: (15.16 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">sublime bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, sublime calls.

Final Pot: 19.16 BB


The nuts, mike. THE NUTS.

[sublime]

Early this afternoon:

I knew it was the nuts /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I assumed the fish had the same hand and my 3bet would be pointless /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

To add insult to injury, the fish is LAG.

[bisonbison]

I assumed the fish had the same hand and my 3bet would be pointless

Ugh.

To add insult to injury, the fish is LAG.

I think he's a decent player on tilt.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

I can tell you how many attractive waitreses there are on the floor and what the occupation is of the 3 guys to my left and 3 to my right.


[/ QUOTE ]

So can I.

1) None.

2) They're all retired.

Guy.

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
but I can tell you how many attractive waitreses there are on the floor

[/ QUOTE ]

What's the problem? You've got your mind on the important stuff.

I don't think it's a big deal, as long as you can snap out of it and play aggressive poker when you want/need to.

[sfer]

I played some no limit today and whenever someone went into the tank I asked them, "What would Jesus do?" They usually didn't find it very funny, but I guess your point was made.

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
Early this afternoon:

I knew it was the nuts /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I assumed the fish had the same hand and my 3bet would be pointless /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

To add insult to injury, the fish is LAG.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if I'm playing against a rock who will only raise with the nuts I'm 3-betting the river 100% of the time.

[Blarg]

I just posted something in the books forum and I wouldn't know if it has any value to you. I recommended Harry Lorrayne's memory book to people looking for tips on poker books.

Most people find memorizing a ton of stuff very hard. I wonder if ADD types can possibly channel that strong mental energy into memorizing things despite what seems like a lack of focus.

I'm thinking something like memorizing the cards dealt in a round of 7-card stud could be something that applies to someone with ADD. Not that I know a damn. But, a lot of memory is concerted concentration and repetition. Can you rope in your attention span at all and focus it? If it's something that doesn't matter to you, I bet it's a definite no and even worse than the average guy.

But how about if it's something you care about, like getting good at poker or winning a hand for lovely cash you can spend and wave in the face of the poor chump you just beat?

I wonder if that constant mental energy can be harnessed at all in the service of memory.

That would be a wonderful upside to ADD if so. It would take a lot of discipline to even try, but I don't think lack of discipline is really as much of a defining feature of ADD as some might think.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

Even if I'm playing against a rock who will only raise with the nuts I'm 3-betting the river 100% of the time.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why on earth would you do that?

Guy.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
I am not interested in ritalin or anyhting of the sort, just looking to improve my mental edge that I "should" have over inferior players.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sublime,

If you genuinely believe that you might have ADHD, I would recommend that you see a psychologist for a consultation. S/he would gather a complete history, attempt to help you figure if you do have ADHD, and discuss with you not only behavioral strategies for managing your attentional problem but also the risks/benefits and pros/cons of medication approaches. If you both agree that you have ADHD and you are amenable to experimenting with medication, s/he could then refer you to a psychiatrist or even back to your primary care doctor for a trial prescription of medication, which may or may not be Ritalin.

Good Luck,

chesspain

P.S. My wife, who like me is also psychologist as well as a poker player, began taking medication for ADHD in her early thirties--and I believe that the medications have greatly improved her ability to succeed given her tendency towards inattention, forgetfulness, difficulty juggling multiple tasks, difficulty completing tasks, etc.

[Joe Tall]

I assumed the fish had the same hand and my 3bet would be pointless

Suddenly you don't like money, interesting.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[sfer]

Because even rocks make mistakes.

[Joe Tall]

Some quit hits here:

1. Never play stud.
2. Exercise regularly
3. Change in diet may help some.
4. Take breaks. I take a walk about every other dealer push.
5. Try a Focus Vitamin Water. (http://www.drinkbetterwater.com/)
6. Review you play with a note pad at breaks and after you play. Go over mistakes and hands.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[sublime]

Suddenly you don't like money, interesting.

In additon to my ADD, I also suffer from occasional moments of idiocy.

[sublime]

5. Try a Focus Vitamin Water.

Do they sell these at the fox?

[sublime]

Chess-

Good advice, thanks /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Joe Tall]

Do they sell these at the fox?

No, try your local gas-n-zip.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[MrHorace]

Sublime,
I have the same problem myself. I've been only playing about 1 yr at Foxwoods,(Maybe 15-20 sessions) and not knocking folks socks off. Even when I'm up dollar wise say at 4 hrs, I'll stay too long and lose. BIG LEAK in my game for sure, but am working on it.
But, what I've tried to start doing when I start losing concentration is to leave the table, head to the head (the long way, back out casino into cafe, and in through slots area), and just take a break. This was very helpful for me in a winning session lately. (:( Only winner so far. UGH! Lots to learn.) It gave me a chance to think about hands, clear my head, check out the pretty waitresses while not playing, etc.
Let me know if it works.
Good Luck, and don't beat up on me too badly on the tables. /images/graemlins/wink.gif