TT with one overcard

[joker122]

I still don't know how to handle this situation against an unknown.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls,

Flop: (4.40 SB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (4.20 BB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6.20 BB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.20 BB

[Nemesis]

i don't know what to do with that either, very confusing ... fold the turn or raise the turn... or call down? I don't know. If you're behind to a weak Queen which seems the most likely then he'll call your raise and probably check call the river... so you lose 1 more BB than calling down. If you're ahead he'll call your raise and probably check/fold if he doesn't improve. So you lose 1 more bet than you win seems like a raise isn't the right call. So call or fold, which though? With all the calling is bad mantra's that we have arround here i feel like i should say fold, but calling down seems the best line to me. I like how you played it.

[naphand]

You are going to be calling moe againt unknowns, for the simple reason you want a handle on him.

On the Turn raising looks a bit much. He might have a weak Q, but I think it's odd he would just call the flop and then bet out again on the Turn - this is usually a 2-pair play OR he has a hand like T /images/graemlins/club.gif7 /images/graemlins/club.gif and has picked up a pair on top of his flush draw. I've also seen this with a medium PP (which you beat). His play is confusing, call is OK, trying to buy a free showdown by raising is horrible when you get 3-bet by Q7.

Obviously you are then calling the River, I think getting 7:1 you should be winning a few more times than that. I'm guessing opponent turns over 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif8 /images/graemlins/club.gif and you got Rivered.

Just because your default play is to raise or fold, does not mean calling is always wrong, esp. against an unknown. Raising should be for a reason - here you really don't know if you have the best hand, there is no-one to knock out and your opponent is not folding, there is a good chance that a raise is either 3-bet or not getting a free SD, but with only 1 overcard to your TT folding does not look right without a better grip on your opponent.

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
His play is confusing, call is OK, trying to buy a free showdown by raising is horrible when you get 3-bet by Q7.

[/ QUOTE ]

I aggree with Naphand on this (good post). When you raise flop with 2nd pair and they bet into you again on turn you are often way behind, but sometimes - and against an unknown its often enough - he is doing a strange move, hoping you will fold (which you sometimes does). Call it down.

One more reason to call it down - as Naphand says - is that you want to know how he plays. Is he tricky (in a good sense), is he "tricky" (in a random way, not depending on the boardcards or his own cards) or is he straightforward (betting when he hits).

[Ezcheeze]

I think thats the best way to play it. Don't ever fold to an unkown in this situation.

-Ezcheeze

[naphand]

I might add, if you are not squirming a lot of the time when making calls like this or value bets, then you are probably not extracting enough value from your marginal hands.

[chezlaw]

When you raise the flop then the BB may be a bit worried that he is behind yet also worried that you are trying to take a free card for a flush draw. So he calls the flop raise and bets out on the turn when its a blank.

Or the turn 7 helped him (or his just a bit wierd). Either way you have to call the turn. The river bet looks bad for you but I think you'll catch a bluff or worse pair often enough.

How did it end?

[joker122]

Thanks, I almost forgot about this one. He had Q7o and HHWG. I've never seen anything like this game.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks, I almost forgot about this one. He had Q7o and HHWG. I've never seen anything like this game.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
When you raise the flop then the BB may be a bit worried that he is behind yet also worried that you are trying to take a free card for a flush draw. So he calls the flop raise and bets out on the turn when its a blank.

Or the turn 7 helped him

[/ QUOTE ]

or both /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
or both

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, it's just the latter.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, it's just the latter.

[/ QUOTE ]

why are you sure he wouldn't have bet the turn if the 7 had missed him?

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
why are you sure he wouldn't have bet the turn if the 7 had missed him?


[/ QUOTE ]

What I'm saying is the turn did hit him, so it's just the latter. It's not a big deal at all though.

[chio]

when i see this betting pattern, usually it's because (a) they made 2 pair or (b) they picked up a draw

i like calling this down HU against an unknown, especially since people like this will use this betting pattern all the time

i don't really like a turn raise here, the only thing that's folding is a complete bluff, and i really want to get to showdown. also, he'll probably bet into you again on the river with a busted flush draw, so you don't really need to raise to "charge him". i think this is a case of using position to call down, betting if he checks