Your move?

[Jesse Richman]

$100 Party SNG, blinds still 10-15, all players involved have T1000, I have no reads on anyone yet. Four part question. I don't like how I played this at any stage.

UTG limps, UGT2 raises to 30, you are UTG3 with AQo. Your move?






















I reraised to T100. Player in MP re-reraises to T170. BB calls, limper and opening raiser fold. Your move?






















I called. Three to a flop of JT3 rainbow. BB bets T15. Your move?
























I called. MP raises all in. UTG folds. Your move?













I folded.

[fatduck]

Call 30 preflop. Fold to reraise. MP has pocket pair, possibly overpair possibly stabbing with a missed set like 99. Either way you're way behind, and if he doesn't have a pocket pair he probably holds AK, which dominates you.

[Jesse Richman]

You would smooth call the min-raise preflop? Why?

If you think theres a decent chance MP has AK, do you still agree with my check on the flop?

[Doubling12]

I will regularly fold pre-flop in this situation. This is my thinking - certainly not gospel but it works for me:

The negative implied odds are beyond horrible. At the $20 level, people will call with hands they play in limit HE ring games (KQ, for example). But at the $100 level, especially early, you should be very concerned if you raise like this and get any action. So you are risking $100 minimum, hoping to pick up $70.

Also, in the first round, losing $500 hurts a lot more than making $500 helps, so you'd much rather be calling T100 late with 98s looking to crack someone who overplays AK to a missed flop.

[EverettKings]

[ QUOTE ]
I will regularly fold pre-flop in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop to the min raise, or to the reraise? Folding to the min raise seems very weak tight: do you only call a raise, even a baby raise, with AA-QQ/AK? You might play 3 pots all day with that mentality, and you won't get any action on them. Though I wouldn't reraise here (I agree on calling and folding to another decent raise), folding outright is the worst of options IMO.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Four questions, four answers.

Fold, fold, call, fold.

[Jason Strasser]

No no no no.

You do not fold preflop for 30 chips with AQo in position. Call. Do not raise. The min raise to me doesnt mean AA KK QQ or AK. So why fold?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Sorry. I don't play AQo from EP in the early rounds.

[triplc]

The reason you fold for 30 chips with AQo in EP and a raise (albeit a mini one)is that if you don't hit an A or a Q and the raiser bets strongly into you, you have to fold. If you do hit an A or a Q on the flop and the raiser bets strongly into you, you probably should fold. If someone reraises after you, you should fold. After calling the second reraise, it's a hand that you need two pair to play with any confidence.

The raiser in front of you has effectively taken control of this hand, even with a min-raise. The reraiser in back has retaken control, and now you are in the middle.

I'd much rather call the thirty with a small to mid pocket pair.

You want to put chips in the middle when you think you have the best of it. After the first raise...maybe, after the second one...definitely not. A reraise...absolutely not. Call the 30 if you must, but a reraise is a recipe for a lot of lost chips.

It's not the 30 chips that you lose preflop that make this a fold, it's the potential volume of chips that you lose after the flop that makes this a fold preflop.

Play well,

CCC

[Doubling12]

SNG's have a strategy all their own. They are the most profitable game on-line for those who make the adjustments. Read what triplc says, I couldn't put it much better. In fact, I would bet that if the average player clicked "post-and-fold" until the blinds were 50/100, and spent that time studying the opponents, they would do better than they do now.

[patrick dicaprio]

going in order

1. raise to 120 or 150, or fold if the limpers are good players or who will limp with some big hands hoping to reraise.

2. since you raised to 100 and were reraised only 70 call.

3.pot is big enough to call only if you will not be raised. given the play of the hand and the board i would probably fold on the flop if I thought the reraise will raise again, otherwise call.

4.once he moves all in it is an easy fold.

Pat

[adanthar]

The second part of the argument that you are making is essentially 'you should fold if you call the 30 and are reraised behind', which is probably true. Certainly, after you raise yourself and are reraised, you have an obvious crying call for 2 pair (and that's about all).

If you just call and hit your A or Q with no action behind, however, you are probably ahead in the hand and risked 30 chips to win whatever part of the minraiser's stack goes in on the flop. If anything, you're probably more likely to be behind to a *limp* UTG than a minraise from that position.

[Jason Strasser]

First of all, I would like to say that your position in this hand is not horrible. Of course you dont have any idea what the players behind you are going to do, but you have the SB, BB, and two players in front of you who have chips committed to the pot. While you have no guarantee the SB and BB will call, it is likely they will given the odds that the pot will present them, barring a raise from behind. Sure the size of the pot will attract calls from behind you, but you may not have horrible position in this hand, and 30 chips is not a huge investment.

[ QUOTE ]
The reason you fold for 30 chips with AQo in EP and a raise (albeit a mini one)is that if you don't hit an A or a Q and the raiser bets strongly into you, you have to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wholeheartedly agree. There are a few cases where you will flop a gutshot or 3 suits of your aces where you can play accordingly, calling when you have the correct odds. But you definitely should not be calling any real bets on the flop without hitting your hand.

[ QUOTE ]
If someone reraises after you, you should fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, I agree. Again, this is a 30 chip commitment. This applies to a substantial reraise. If he made it 45 behind you, you should call.

[ QUOTE ]
After calling the second reraise, it's a hand that you need two pair to play with any confidence.

The raiser in front of you has effectively taken control of this hand, even with a min-raise. The reraiser in back has retaken control, and now you are in the middle.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is where you go wrong IMO. You seem to assume a raise behind you. At the point of calling the 30, you have no idea someone is raising behind you. Sure, if you have a crazy maniac who raises every hand and he is on the button--fold. But in a standard game, you can not assume a raise.

[ QUOTE ]
It's not the 30 chips that you lose preflop that make this a fold, it's the potential volume of chips that you lose after the flop that makes this a fold preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree. But no one said if you flop TPTK you have to go broke.... You are getting a very good price to see a flop with a very good hand (addressing the call of 30). Using the information that someone will reraise after you call the 30 to justify a fold is faulty.

-Jason

[chill888]

1. Call (fold is OK too especially early in Tourney) - Raise IMHO was asking for trouble

2. Serves you right for raising /images/graemlins/smile.gif still for 70 more I'd probably call. Depends if I knew him.

3. Only two left and a weak raise? If I knew him and he was a pretty good player: I'd think about raising maybe 90 - 120 or something like that - folding to any reraise.
Not many good players use tiny courtesy bets to induce check raises (still it depends if you know him or not).
But a call is OK.

4. Fold.


Side comment: While I know many here love the Party S&G's: one advantage to the Stars S&Gs $50 or $100 is it is far easier too KNOW the opponent at the start of the game and use that info - as there are far less players and you can also pick your game / opponents easier.

Regards,