Laugh it up, guys [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

Dynasty

08-15-2004, 12:59 AM

I have no idea what you guys are laughing at or think is weak.

The original poster has AA on a flop of Qh,7c,3d with six opponnets. He bet the flop and got called in four places. The Qs came on the turn, he bet again, and got raised. There are about 12 big bets in the pot (less rake and assuming he's heads-up against the turn raiser).

You guys think this is an easy decision? I think I'll post the hand in Small Stakes and see if everyone here thinks it's an easy turn decision.

BottlesOf

08-15-2004, 03:21 AM

Phew. I was looking at this and seriously doubting myself.

Lazymeatball

08-15-2004, 08:17 AM

I was about to ask what was so funny, then I saw Dynasty's post and was relieved that I wasn't the only one that had no clue what joke you guys were enjoying.

When the board pairs top pair against 4 opponents here, it is very likely your AA just got cracked.

cardcounter0

08-15-2004, 08:30 AM

A Blind Man walks into a bar filled with Blonde Body Builders.

He orders a drink and says, "I just heard a really good Blonde joke".

The bartender says, "I know you can't see, so let me explain something to you. I'm a blonde, and I'm a blackbelt in Karate. The guy sitting next to you weighs 290 pounds and is a champion wrestler and he is blonde. The guy on the other side of you is a professional boxer and he is blonde. NOW DO YOU STILL WANT TO TELL THAT BLONDE JOKE?"

"Naw, forget it", says the blind man, "If I'm going to have to explain it three times, then screw it."
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Alobar

08-15-2004, 10:42 AM

dood, the blondes in that joke are supposed to be women....otherwise, its like not very funny. so lose the body builder part. Make the bartender a chick, and the other FEMALE customers a doctor, and like a nobel prize winner. Then its funny

knifeandfork

08-15-2004, 11:04 AM

um imho there are some quality players that post on RGP outside of the name pros, and at least one of them chimed in on this post. at 2-4 i would not fold here without a really good read. the poster is probably new to poker but he is making an effort to improve just like most of us. we all didnt start with the skills of a dynasty, clark, or the devil etc etc. If posters here were a little less condescending more players would post here. there is nothing to make you feel better about a forum like this than having your first post ridiculed by some unknown (to you) guy (lets say Ed Miller) with a smart ass comment, that is just so obvious that he cant spend a few short words explaining the "correct" play but has time to make fun and put down. just my thoughts we have all looked stupid making certain play at this game, if we were perfect we would never raise a guy holding the nuts, or steam off mounds of chips. i guess that could be the end of the rant but it just bothers me when i tell a solid player he/she should check out 2+2 and they refer to the smart ass "elitists". wawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawawa wawawa
jason

shadow29

08-15-2004, 12:34 PM

I was specifically referring to stuff like, "Math isn't everything." and "I'm VERY difficult to beat" and "I never have a losing session."

Also- at 2/4 I don't think this is an auto fold. Who knows what this guy could have. I think that the opponents are too weak at live 2/4 to ditch on the turn. I like check/call river, unless of course you hit the case ace.

Sundevils21

08-15-2004, 02:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
unless of course you hit the case ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

why is there only 1 ace left?

Ed Miller

08-15-2004, 03:04 PM

I apologize for having been short with you, Jason.

vetman81

08-16-2004, 01:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If posters here were a little less condescending more players would post here. there is nothing to make you feel better about a forum like this than having your first post ridiculed by some unknown (to you) guy (lets say Ed Miller) with a smart ass comment, that is just so obvious that he cant spend a few short words explaining the "correct" play but has time to make fun and put down.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldnt agree more. I have had posters do this to me a couple of times, and I have seen it done (unfortunately) quite often. I came here to learn and improve my poker, not to be treated like an idiot. I am sure most people are here for the same reason.

Noo Yawk

08-16-2004, 09:51 AM

Any one on this board that thinks Ed Miller, Dynasty or Clark are rude or nasty need to look at their skills as a student. How can you possibly learn without taking some criticism?

I've been using this board for years and can say with absolute certainty:
This board contains some of THE MOST important and correct poker advice that a serious player will ever get.

If you guys insist on taking everything personal than I highly doubt you'll get what you came here for.

daryn

08-16-2004, 02:34 PM

good point. it's like the physics dept. at umass. everyone hates this one professor, because he's a little hard on the students, but he's easily the best prof. in the dept.

Ed Miller

08-16-2004, 02:39 PM

Any one on this board that thinks Ed Miller, Dynasty or Clark are rude or nasty need to look at their skills as a student.

I remember the post he's referring to. I gave him a hard time because he called his opponents "idiots," which is a pet peeve for me. He didn't know it was a pet peeve, and I didn't give him any way to know it. I was unecessarily glib.

vetman81

08-16-2004, 03:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Me: I think I am getting better since I have started posting here.

2+2er: You are getting better? I would hate to see how you used to play!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no problem with constuctive criticism, but this is not it. I have seen these types of comments in other posts to other people as well. I know not everyone here does this, but some do and that is the point I am trying to make.

[ QUOTE ]
This board contains some of THE MOST important and correct poker advice that a serious player will ever get.

[/ QUOTE ]

Although I have only been posting here a couple of months, I have learned a lot and I completely agree. Hopefully in the future I will be able to give people the type of advice I am currently getting.

Disclaimer: I am not trying to whine or complain, I am just backing up what the original poster had to say.

Al_Capone_Junior

08-16-2004, 05:22 PM

makes me wonder if...

I should raise with AA preflop in a limit game.

I should consider calling down everytime the top card on the board pairs and I get raised on the turn.

I should just throw myself into traffic on las vegas boulevard at first opportunity due to the truly pathetic state that online poker forums have evolved to due to the poker boom.

al

Al_Capone_Junior

08-16-2004, 05:41 PM

It's not an easy decision.

What I found rather pathetic was that the answers ranged (just about) from "call every time no matter what" to "fold every time no matter what" to "reraise" to "email grandma and ask her," and only a few really elaborated with any real solid (or otherwise) reasoning to back their answers up.

My favorite quote tho from the thread...

"...in the games I play - I don't ever lose any money, and I
> make quite a lot."

Notice the word EVER.

But a notable mention...

"Which is why the top bots can only
beat online limit games for a half a big bet an hour ..."

And a bit of wisdumb from gary carson...

"Re: Pocket Aces
From: Gary Carson (garycarson1@wmconnect.com)
Date Posted: 8/14/2004 6:23:00 PM

>
>The point isn't to discard the math, but you need to be able to do
>something that no computer can do: adjust the odds based on your
>estimation of the opponent

Computers have been able to do that since about the 1940's.
--
Gary Carson"

As a last comment, the reason I never got into RGP in the first place was the horrendous format they use - very hard to follow, constantly repeating the previous post, etc. I can see it has evolved to be much worse these days.

al

mike l.

08-16-2004, 10:42 PM

yeah i agree i was perplexed by what was funny about the post. i didnt read any posts on here about it, and having read dynasty's i dont think i will.

3rdCheckRaise

08-17-2004, 12:37 AM

I was just thinking the same thing...Nothing easy about that call or fold...

knifeandfork

08-17-2004, 12:19 PM

thanks ed. you are right about the "idiot" comment and i definitely think some of the advice on this forum is indispensable (especially limit holdem). the title of that post was just plain bad. this forum has helped me to improve quite a bit, so thanks. i would like to see the pissing contests step down a bit and the tone a little more firendly but that just puts some posters sense of humor on lock down so ill take the good with the bad.
jason

BaronVonCP

08-17-2004, 12:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
unless of course you hit the case ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

why is there only 1 ace left?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a joke, get it?

B Dids

08-17-2004, 01:25 PM

No offense, but I think you're very wrong about the environment of this board.

I spend far too much time in my day on various message boards, and this board is by far the most polite and welcoming board I've experienced on the web.

Part of what happens is that people don't take the time to read a board before they post. IMO, it's always wise to lurk for a week or two and get a feeling for the texture of the board. Search around, and you'll find out why "what's the point of playing JJ UTG" posts are frowned upon.

Sponger15SB

08-17-2004, 01:53 PM

Agreed, another thing that bugs me is like 99.9999% of the time in the first 5 posts a new poster will have a thread like this...

should i move up in limits

my winrate is 84.2 bb/100 hands over 216 hands, is this sustainable

my ROI is 75% in $30 SNGs, is this sustainable

i am the lord of all that is poker no matter what you say

bankroll requirements

how did you learn how to play poker so well

what books should i read

bad beat story

should i go pro

lets just "assume" online poker is rigged, no i'm not accusing it of being rigged, just raising the question ok, look stop getting mad at me the other day I had Aces cracked 4x in an hour, "what if" it is rigged, damn i hate all you people...

Monty Cantsin

08-17-2004, 02:36 PM

I agree with you %100 B-Diddy. If anything, 2+2 could use a little more rudeness and elitism. I'm not kidding. I think the danger of death by white noise is far, far greater than the danger of death by lack of fresh blood. And one of the only things an open, unmoderated board has to defend itself against white noise is fear.

Also, maybe I'm a selfish son of a bitch, but I have zero interest in spreading the good word about 2+2 and boosting the reputation of this place as a warm and welcoming haven of friendly comraderie and awesome strategic insight.

If people think (incorrectly) that this is an elitist enclave of cruel snobbery than good for them.

Personally, I value politeness and try to treat everyone with respect, but I also value honesty, brevity, and wit. And I think the occasional put down or brush off, when it is well-earned, is absolutely necessary for keeping this place healthy.

I looked at knifeandfork's first couple of posts and he got thoughtful responses from the likes of Dynasty, MG, sthief, and Tosh. And he's complaining?.

Ed, I would like to officially demand an apology from you FOR APOLOGIZING.

/mc

Zele

08-17-2004, 04:40 PM

Good post, MC.

Personally, nothing has made me work harder on my game than having a 2+2 luminary call me an idiot (in so many words). There are a lot of sharp poker minds here, and none of the ones I am thinking of rip into people for the sake of cruelty, but rather for the sake of education. And it's never nasty, just forceful. Additionally, one won't go very far in this game needing one's ego stroked.

On another note, someone abusing other players at a poker table is not owed an explanation for why he is a target of criticism.

Justin A

08-17-2004, 11:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Phew. I was looking at this and seriously doubting myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly. Thanks Dynasty.

Justin A

knifeandfork

08-18-2004, 05:00 AM

you are right i did get excellent responses on terrible posts and i am grateful, dynasty and sthief were especially helpful. i should have not taken offense to Ed's brevity, i guess i was just sensitive that day. i do think spreading the wealth of knowledge can help though there are plenty of fish out there (me included) and most people dont put any time in to improving their poker game. im not to familiar with boards though so maybe im looking for a utopia that doesnt exist or maybe i already found one and dont recognize it but for whatever reason mr miller even remembering my response and apologizing to little ol me was considerate and in good taste i think. thanks,
jason

knifeandfork

08-18-2004, 05:06 AM

yup you too sir are correct. being a gentleman at the table is something ive improved on quite a bit. i came from a background in games (non poker) where ego, similar things to slowrolling and berating other players was common and accepted. ive found that poker is very refreshing in comparison, and ihave tried to improve my posts to be more thoughtful and thought provoking. wheni first started posting i did not know how to structure a good post etc im working on it and my game thanks for all your help.
jason
perhaps just be gentle when you see a stranger or newbie tag?