Another Applying SSHE post

[TheRake]

I like the way I played this. What do you think? Standard?

Not many hands against opponent (MP1), but seems a little LAG.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: TheRake is Button with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, TheRake calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (10.33 SB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP2 folds, TheRake calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.66 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">TheRake raises</font>, UTG folds, MP1 calls.

River: (10.66 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
MP1 checks, TheRake checks.

Final Pot: 10.66 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 10.66 BB, between MP1 and TheRake.</font>

TheRake

[felson]

Looks good to me. I think you have a value bet on the river.

[joker122]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks good to me. I think you have a value bet on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not so sure about this. What worse hands do you see calling? MP either has a big ace or a middle pair such as TT or 99 which aren't folding. The question is does an unimproved AK or AQ make this river call often enough...I'm inclined to say no but I know others here disagree with me.

[me454555]

I'm not sure how I feel about the flop call. Can you please explain it to me?

[TheRake]

I thought there was a decent chance I was ahead. MP1 could easily be betting overcards. I planned on raising the turn if a non A K or Q fell. The turn card was very good for me and made raising even easier IMO.

TheRake

[me454555]

If this is you're thinking, I think I'd favor raising the flop to try to get it heads up against MP. If he's got 2 overcards like AK, you're much better off playing him heads up then allowing 2 other players in the hand who might have a Q, T, or 9. Less bullets to dodge that way.

[PizzaAggie]

Roy Cooke has an article about this exact subject in this month's Card Player magazine...also found on CardPlayer.com. His suggestion is to raise after the flop. If the other player just calls, chances are you have the best hand. If he plays back at you, lay it down. That is the Reader's Digest version.

For what it is worth, I tried it and it worked for me, although I only have a sampling of one hand.

[TheRake]

MP1 shows AA and MHING

TheRake

[Trix]

I think raising the flop is better here as you are able to protect your hand.

[TheRake]

Trix,

I respect your opinion. Others have said the same, but I want to see the turn here for back door draws don't I? What if I am 3 bet on the flop? I think being 3 bet on the turn is much less likely even if MP1 has an overpair.

TheRake

[Trix]

If he 3bets the flop out of position then you are almost allways behind and will call or fold depending on pot odds.

The pot will be 15 SBs if HU. I´m not sure how much the backdoor draw adds. It wont have to add very much as you will probably take him for 2 BBs on the turn and one on the river, meaning that you almost have the implied odds to go for the set.

[ QUOTE ]
but I want to see the turn here for back door draws don't I?

[/ QUOTE ]

Btw., the backdoor draw isn´t very strong as only a 7 will make you see the river(It add outs to 10 outs. Makes sense?).
If the flop was 76x instead there would be some gutshots that would allow you to see the river also. This backdoor draw adds alot more, maybe around the same as a backdoor flush.

I think your primary goal is to protect your hand if it´s good on the flop and the secondary is to find out if he holds overs or your are beat as cheap as posible and raising the flop does both better imo.

[TheRake]

[ QUOTE ]
Btw., the backdoor draw isn´t very strong as only a 7 will make you see the river(It add outs to 10 outs. Makes sense?).
If the flop was 76x instead there would be some gutshots that would allow you to see the river also. This backdoor draw adds alot more, maybe around the same as a backdoor flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree the BD draw isn't as strong with this flop, but any gutshot gives me odds to see the river. I would likely have 6 clean outs or ~6.5:1 to call a bet on the turn. With position it seems like enough to me. Plus factor in that I might be ahead and raising the turn seemed like a better way to protect my hand since overcards could correctly call 2 cold on the flop.

TheRake

[MarkD]

Raising the flop is better than waiting until the turn.

[Trix]

Yeah, you are right, I kinda [censored] up when I looked at the backdoor draw. Raise flop and call the 3bet and fold turn unimproved then.

[Guy McSucker]

If you're going to play beyond the flop here, and I think you should because the preflop raiser could very well just have overcards, then you need to raise the flop. There are two players who haven't put any money in the pot on the flop yet, and you don't want them deciding to hang around with QT and 95, making another 11 cards you have to dodge to win.

SSHE would definitely advise raising the flop here. You may well be ahead. You have some outs if not. The players behind are looking at attractive odds to call along on thin holdings and make it harder for you to win. Raise and protect your hand.

Guy.

[MicroBob]

seeing the back-door draws cheaply is less important then knocking out the other hands that likely have overcards.

if your raise on the flop gets any player to fold cards 9 and higher that he might have otherwise stayed in with for just 1 bet then the raise is worth it i think.

[elindauer]

You're outthinking yourself. Just raise the flop. Look, two people folded for one bet. There's no doubt that raising with no one having yet called is the best play for limiting the field.

Good luck.
Eric

[RustedCorpse]

If I'm going to stay in, I raise the flop, see two cards for two SB's. If he plays back on the turn I may lay down I don't think you can just check call in this situation if you're staying in. But I'm not an expert.