Ray Of Light
08-14-2004, 07:56 AM
I just want to give an example of the type of second/last pair hands that I have started to play playing, because I belive that they have turned into my biggest leak...
I am in the BB with 9-4 suited on a loose passive table. By the time it has reached me in the action, the pot has been raised and there have been 3 cold callers which includes the SB.
I call, based on my hand catching a flush draw.
Now this is where my starting standards have started to change, and I am thinking it is for the worst. First of all, I used to never play these kinds of hands, simply sticking to a pre-ordained starting hand chart. Now I think I am becoming much too loose preflop, by playing any two suited hole card as long as I have the 8.5 to 1 or better odds to call for a flush draw... is this kind of play too loose???
The flop comes up Q 9 2 rainbow.
The preflop raiser checks, there is a bet after him, 1 caller, a fold and now the action is on me.
There is now 12 SB in the pot, with implied odds of 14 SB by the turn card.
Here is where WLLHE advocates folding without a seconds thought, and up until 2 weeks ago, before reading that superb Ed Miller post about crushing microlimit games, I would have folded. But there is a piece of advice that I now keep in my head when playing poker... When the pot is big look for reasons to call, when the pot is small look for reasons to fold.
I call. I believe that the flop bettor has top pair, the caller has top pair poor kicker at best so has limped along. I am looking to improve my hand to trips or two pair which gives me 5 outs, and leaves me needing 8.5 to 1 odds, so the implied odds are very generous...
Now here is where I think my huge leak is right now. In an attempt to become more aggressive, I think I have become more passive. I am hoping to draw to bottom two pair at least. That isn't good poker is it? Is this the kind of hand I should be throwing away on the flop, or more importantly, preflop?
The preflop raiser calls.
The turn makes the board look Q 9 2 3.
The preflop raiser checks, the flop bettor bets, the caller inbetween folds, now the action is on me.
Now there is 8 BB in the pot, with implied odds of 9BB. this is where I think I leak the most since the bets are so expensive here.
Should I simply fold this hand here? Even though I have slightly profitable odds to chase my trips or two pair? Or do I fold, and only call in situtations like this when the pot is REALLY big? And what constitues as a big pot? Isn't ANY pot that gives you, even slightly, better odds than what you need to improve, 'a big pot'?
Anyway... thats my question really... when can you advocate playing second or bottom pair?
I am in the BB with 9-4 suited on a loose passive table. By the time it has reached me in the action, the pot has been raised and there have been 3 cold callers which includes the SB.
I call, based on my hand catching a flush draw.
Now this is where my starting standards have started to change, and I am thinking it is for the worst. First of all, I used to never play these kinds of hands, simply sticking to a pre-ordained starting hand chart. Now I think I am becoming much too loose preflop, by playing any two suited hole card as long as I have the 8.5 to 1 or better odds to call for a flush draw... is this kind of play too loose???
The flop comes up Q 9 2 rainbow.
The preflop raiser checks, there is a bet after him, 1 caller, a fold and now the action is on me.
There is now 12 SB in the pot, with implied odds of 14 SB by the turn card.
Here is where WLLHE advocates folding without a seconds thought, and up until 2 weeks ago, before reading that superb Ed Miller post about crushing microlimit games, I would have folded. But there is a piece of advice that I now keep in my head when playing poker... When the pot is big look for reasons to call, when the pot is small look for reasons to fold.
I call. I believe that the flop bettor has top pair, the caller has top pair poor kicker at best so has limped along. I am looking to improve my hand to trips or two pair which gives me 5 outs, and leaves me needing 8.5 to 1 odds, so the implied odds are very generous...
Now here is where I think my huge leak is right now. In an attempt to become more aggressive, I think I have become more passive. I am hoping to draw to bottom two pair at least. That isn't good poker is it? Is this the kind of hand I should be throwing away on the flop, or more importantly, preflop?
The preflop raiser calls.
The turn makes the board look Q 9 2 3.
The preflop raiser checks, the flop bettor bets, the caller inbetween folds, now the action is on me.
Now there is 8 BB in the pot, with implied odds of 9BB. this is where I think I leak the most since the bets are so expensive here.
Should I simply fold this hand here? Even though I have slightly profitable odds to chase my trips or two pair? Or do I fold, and only call in situtations like this when the pot is REALLY big? And what constitues as a big pot? Isn't ANY pot that gives you, even slightly, better odds than what you need to improve, 'a big pot'?
Anyway... thats my question really... when can you advocate playing second or bottom pair?