AKs at the shorthanded 2+2 table

[JEM7VSBL]

only 5 people at the table and i'm holding AKs on the BB.


Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: JEM is BB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, MP folds, Button <font color="purple">(easypete)</font> calls, SB folds, <font color="CC3333">JEM raises</font>, Button <font color="purple">(easypete)</font> calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">JEM bets</font>, easypete calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">JEM bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">easypete raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">JEM 3-bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">easypete caps</font>, JEM calls.

i 3-bet here with the backdoor flush draw...

River: (11.25 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
JEM checks, <font color="CC3333">easypete bets</font>, JEM calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 13.25 BB, between easypete and JEM.</font>

what do ya think?

[Haupt_234]

Looks good to me JEM.

I don't know what easypete had, but I think he played it poorly. Open limping on the button after the table folds can never be a good thing, short-handed or not.

Haupt_234

[btspider]

I am confused by the PF limp by the button.. he is saying he can beat top pair (turn action), but he should be raising Ax, 55, or 88 PF. any draws or weaker hands would likely raise the flop.. so maybe he got tricky with AA PF since it was shorthanded.. I'd have to see how the table was playing to decide (yes, i'm copping out). i think you gave enough action. its too soon to possibly give a free showdown. pull a stop-n-go or 3-bet the turn as you did. call down any raises beyond those bets.

[easypete]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks good to me JEM.

I don't know what easypete had, but I think he played it poorly. Open limping on the button after the table folds can never be a good thing, short-handed or not.

Haupt_234

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Haupt. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[kgrad5]

i had openlimped twice with AA in the past 10 or so hands both time trapping JEM into the hand..

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
i had openlimped twice with AA in the past 10 or so hands both time trapping JEM into the hand..

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if its 3 AA traps in 11 hands, then JEM should stop playing on friday the 13th.

[Haupt_234]

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Thanks for the vote of confidence Haupt.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. Sorry if I seem a bit harsh, just callin it like I see it. But, on second thought, I guess I can see some merit in limping on the button in a short-handed game. I'm not one to give advice in short-handed so perhaps I shouldn't.

Haupt_234

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I can see some merit in limping on the button in a short-handed game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't see much merit in it. You get played back at so much anyway there's just not much point in trying to trap anybody since they will often trap themselves for a lot more bets if you give them a chance.

I can see some merits if the game is say 3-players, but not at 5.

[JEM7VSBL]

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[ QUOTE ]
i had openlimped twice with AA in the past 10 or so hands both time trapping JEM into the hand..

[/ QUOTE ]

if its 3 AA traps in 11 hands, then JEM should stop playing on friday the 13th.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, or i should pay a little more attention at the 2+2 table...especially if it's shorthanded.

but anyway, i will post the results shortly, any guesses as to pete's hand?

[easypete]

ToP pages 63-64.

[easypete]

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any guesses as to pete's hand?

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52o? Did I have 52o?

[Entity]

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[ QUOTE ]
any guesses as to pete's hand?

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52o? Did I have 52o?

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If you did, you need to update your pattern map.

Rob

[Haupt_234]

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any guesses as to pete's hand?


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55 or 88, but i'm leaning towards 55.

Haupt_234

[JEM7VSBL]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
any guesses as to pete's hand?


[/ QUOTE ]

55 or 88, but i'm leaning towards 55.

Haupt_234

[/ QUOTE ]


AA

[bakku]

Open raising from the button, like you so often do, would be much more deceptive than open limping against thinking players, IMO.

[btspider]

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[ QUOTE ]
any guesses as to pete's hand?


[/ QUOTE ]

55 or 88, but i'm leaning towards 55.

Haupt_234

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AA

[/ QUOTE ]

3 out of 11 it is..

i'll have to get ToP one of these days. Are there any other hands it discusses doing this with on 63-64? seems useless unless you are against non-thinking players.. though its unlikely to come up more than once in any single session.

[kgrad5]

while this is true, what if its folded to you in the sb and you have AA at the same table (which is what happened to me) i completed instead of raising because iw anted action with my AA

[Trix]

You usually get more action by raising against a thinking player, unless he have seen you complete crappy hands also and even if so, he will very like slow down fast when you give action postflop.

[easypete]

I agree with all of this.

If I was on a loose table, I would have raised with no question. Since I'm on a table that doesn't see the flop about 10-25%, I want to ensure I see a flop with this hand. I've got a "monster". I want to have some potential to win more than 0.75 BB's.

Yes, raising would be more deceptive if and only if either SB or BB have a hand. The chances of this short handed are pretty slim.

I have stolen the blinds several times. I don't want the blinds. I am willing (I seem to be the only one) to take a risk in these situations w/ AA. Let BB, in this case, catch up. If I had known that BB had a hand, I would have raised, but I did not get a read on him when the cards were dealt (online and all).

After he raised me pf, I was thinking this would be a good time to 3-bet, but again no... that would be too suspicious.

This advice is given out in many books. This is not a new (or accepted) idea in this forum, and I understand why. I don't play a lot of tight-aggressive games, just the 2+2 tables and the occasional party game that turns into this. In a loose game, this would be devestating, and I would never do this there (unless the rare occasion that I'm going for overcalls pf).

OK... on to the flop. BB bets, pot is small, I call to wait for the turn and raise there. At this point, I figure him for at best 2-pr or a lesser trip. We cap the turn. this would never had happened if we capped pf or capped the flop. If JEM capped didn't check/call the turn at this point, then I think he would be playing incorrectly.

Yes, I agree, for the most part that slow-playing AA pf is bad. I will also re-state that I do this about 0.3% of the time. There have only been 2 or 3 times on the 2+2 tables that I've done this. Every time (except when CDC raise/folded pf), I have won more money than I would have if I played it straight. I've done it twice outside the 2+2 table, both times winning huge pots.

I don't advocate it for a bunch of situations, but I believe this is one of those situations. Give me AA in a TAG on the button, I will limp first in about half the time. I may be wrong, but I hate stealing the blinds with a hand that has so much advantage post flop.