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SA-Bishop

08-13-2004, 05:07 PM

I'm a little unsure about this one and want to see what others say...

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds.

Turn: (5.75 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

thanks!

dfscott

08-13-2004, 05:20 PM

Another one of my favorite starting hands.

UTG+1 could easily be on unpaired overcards here. I think you have to bet this river.

spacemonkey57

08-13-2004, 05:24 PM

Assuming you didn't have a read on UTG+1 as a rock and that you were fairly confident the BB would come along the preflop call is fine. Other than that it looks OK. You may consider betting the river. UTG+1 could just be having a hard time letting go of AK here.

If he raises when the queen hits on the turn do you fold here?

sfer

08-13-2004, 05:26 PM

Bet. The. River.

SA-Bishop

08-13-2004, 05:35 PM

The reason I did not bet the river is because I did not think any worse hands would call my middle pair. Bad logic?

SA-Bishop

08-13-2004, 05:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If he raises when the queen hits on the turn do you fold here?

[/ QUOTE ]
yes

Transference

08-13-2004, 05:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The reason I did not bet the river is because I did not think any worse hands would call my middle pair. Bad logic?

[/ QUOTE ]

Logic is pretty sound excepting that many players will call one bet on this river with AK refusing to be 'bluffed.' If you think its unlikely that this is the case against this player the check is just fine. Most of the time your probably not going to get called by a worse hand here IMHO.

sfer

08-13-2004, 05:45 PM

AK will call all the live long day. Read Clarkmeister's comments in this thread. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=smallholdem&Number=739 859&Forum=All_Forums&Words=LAG&Searchpage=0&Limit= 25&Main=739859&Search=true&where=sub&Name=7540&dat erange=1&newerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertyp e=&bodyprev=#Post739859)

Brian

08-13-2004, 06:15 PM

Hi Bishop,

Logic doesn't apply when dealing with illogical players. If you ever have to think about betting the River, go ahead and do it. It's rarely incorrect. I know I've bled away many big bets over the past year by checking it down, seeing their Ace-high or bottom pair, and thought "Well, it was only a big bet, and he may not have even called, and in the long run, sometimes he'll have a better hand than me, so checking it down wasn't all too bad." Wrong.

-Brian

sfer

08-13-2004, 06:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I know I've bled away many big bets over the past year by checking it down, seeing their Ace-high or bottom pair, and thought "Well, it was only a big bet, and he may not have even called, and in the long run, sometimes he'll have a better hand than me, so checking it down wasn't all too bad." Wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Brian is so right. A large part of your profit will come from value betting where most players are too timid. Not value betting in these spots in order to avoid the hugely rare river raise/checkraise will cost you a lot in the long run.

SA-Bishop

08-13-2004, 06:27 PM

Well, I'm sold on value betting the river. Villian turned over his not surprising at all AK amd MHIG.

That was one of my doubts about the hand. The other was cold calling preflop. Anybody think that was wrong?

dfscott

08-14-2004, 12:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
AK will call all the live long day. Read Clarkmeister's comments in this thread. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=smallholdem&Number=739 859&Forum=All_Forums&Words=LAG&Searchpage=0&Limit= 25&Main=739859&Search=true&where=sub&Name=7540&dat erange=1&newerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertyp e=&bodyprev=#Post739859)

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish I had read that thread before I played this hand tonight, but I just couldn't believe it with 3 opponents calling down.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
4 folds, Hero raises, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls,

Flop: (10 SB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB folds.

River: (11.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB
Main Pot: 11.50 BB, between Hero, CO, Button and SB. > Pot won by Hero (11.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
SB shows Js 7c (high card, jack).
Hero shows 8d 8s (one pair, eights).
CO shows 6h 4h (one pair, fours).
Button shows As Qh (high card, ace).
Outcome: Hero wins 11.50 BB. 

Ironic that I was saying BTR earlier in this thread. Oh well, do as I say, not as I do...