Did I get carried away here?

[parappa]

Pushing seemed rash, but the pot was so big that any meaningful stab at it was going to take such a huge percentage of my stack...


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed)

MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t800)
CO (t800)
Button (t800)
SB (t800)
BB (t800)
UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t800)
UTG+2 (t800)
Hero (t800)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t15, <font color="CC3333">UTG+2 raises to t30</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t90</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls t90, Button calls t90, SB calls t80, BB calls t75, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls t60.

Flop: (t555) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets t710 (All-In)</font>, CO folds, Button calls t710 (All-In), SB folds, BB folds, UTG+2 folds.

Turn: (t1975) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: (t1975) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t1975

[Dominic]

you can't assume the other guy has got a 4, right? I don't mind pushing because if he had AA or KK he would've re-raised you pre-flop...AK is a possibility and he thinks you're trying to steal on the flop. The only thing I'm really scared of is 99.

Either way, I like it...the pot's big enough to push, if you win, you double up, if you lose, you're out early and you can start another one, thereby helping your hourly rate! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[poboy]

Don't you just love getting great starting cards out of position(always seems to happen that way). The paired flop is the only thing that worries me. What would you have done if you were on the button and he was in middle position and pushed all-in? If you would still call, than I think it is better to bet first and give him the opportunity to fold. The fact that he called your raise preflop makes me think he has some type of small pocket pair(hopefully not 9's or 4's), maybe 10's. Perhaps he put you on AK, and thinks your trying to bluff him off the pot.

[adanthar]

If you really wanted to gamble on the first hand, reraise to 150, 200, or just go all in preflop. (Don't worry, at least one will take you for a maniac and call.) 90 is nowhere near enough and asking for this.

I hate the push, too, but mostly due to your reasoning for it. "Any meaningful bet will take a big chunk of my stack so I'll just go all in and hope that one of the 4 worse hands as opposed to the 17 better hands calls me" has no meaning when even 100 chips is still 7xBB. You can *easily* get away from this hand with a bet of 250 or 300 if the action goes something like call-AI checkraise-AI call, leaving you with more than enough chips to make a comeback; your hand is not particularly vulnerable if you are ahead [300 is enough to fold most cold calling AK's and diamonds are not all *that* horrifying]; and you will often know when you are ahead on the turn, largely based on the number of callers and action.

But really, the main problem is your inadequate raise in the first place.

[durron597]

I would raise a tiny bit more preflop (probably T100 for psychological value). Otherwise I play it exactly the same.

[Hal 2000]

Regarding the lukewarm pf raise: Did you get a little twinge when you got all those callers? Especially early on in these SNG's, get those chasing hands out and move on.

[patrick dicaprio]

i cant quarrel with your play but whenever you are called after you bet all in you are usually beaten or face a good draw to which you are not that much of a favorite. i would put him on AdKd here at best, i would be surprise if he had a 4, KK or AA.

pat

[parappa]

[ QUOTE ]
Regarding the lukewarm pf raise: Did you get a little twinge when you got all those callers? Especially early on in these SNG's, get those chasing hands out and move on.

[/ QUOTE ]

and also from an earlier response: "90 is nowhere near enough to get weak hands out."

I despise trying to figure out how much to raise on the first couple of rounds of these things. Sometimes I raise to 60 with aces and get no callers and sometimes, as here, I raise to 90 and get 6 callers. I've had AK and raised it to 150 and gotten 5 callers. It seems random what amount will thin the field in the first or second rounds, and it doesn't seem to settle down for me until the big blind is at 50. I used to always raise 150 with a premium hand and limp with everything else (which would include this QQ).

Anyone else have any thoughts on pf raising with big hands in loose 10+1s?

[parappa]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate the push, too, but mostly due to your reasoning for it. "Any meaningful bet will take a big chunk of my stack so I'll just go all in and hope that one of the 4 worse hands as opposed to the 17 better hands calls me" has no meaning when even 100 chips is still 7xBB. You can *easily* get away from this hand with a bet of 250 or 300 if the action goes something like call-AI checkraise-AI call, leaving you with more than enough chips to make a comeback; your hand is not particularly vulnerable if you are ahead [300 is enough to fold most cold calling AK's and diamonds are not all *that* horrifying]; and you will often know when you are ahead on the turn, largely based on the number of callers and action.

[/ QUOTE ]

You certainly could be right, but I'm not sure I'm convinced by this reasoning. The idea behind going all-in here is that I hope I won't be called. I'm not sure I like betting any amount less than the pot, certainly, because all I'm doing is making a big pot for the flush draws or anyone that's already got me beat. My thought is that I either have to play very aggressively and try to win the pot on the flop or I just have to check/fold if there's significant action. I'm not going to be able to call to the river, and most times, a smaller bet is just going to use up chips without telling me anything. Suppose I bet 300, MP calls, late position calls. Or suppose I bet 300, MP raises to 600, everyone else folds? Or I bet 300, MP raises to 600, LP calls? I'm not sure the decisions are any easier here than they were before my turn.

Please help straighten me out here if I'm not understanding something basic.