The PP 1/2 blood, sweat and tears thread

[dfscott]

Since there are several 2+2'ers slogging their way through PP 1/2 now, I thought I'd start a thread for us to compare notes, progress, and beats (bad and otherwise). Basically, just a place to commiserate and help each other out in general, without the rest of the forum having to put up with our whining. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ChromePony]

I just started with 1/2 tonight by mixing one in with 2 .5/1 tables. It could have started out better but also worse, haven't hit many hands and the few that I've played have missed the flop or come up short. All in all only down about 10-12BB so I'm not too worried. I think this thread is a great idea, I'm sure we could use some support as we are getting used to the 1/2 tighties. More updates to come....

[josh1122]

Ive had about 5 or 6 flush over flush beats but other than that things are going well for me and I am recovering from a -100BB Thursday through Sunday. Currently at about 1000 and playing some juicy juicy bad beat tables. They remind me very much of .50/1 /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[dfscott]

<Warning: this is a bit of a rant>

Tonight was another psychologically devasting session. Down early, then up around 20-30BB, but finally finishing down 11BB. Everytime I think I have this game figured out, I end up losing AQo to AJo, flush to royal flush, and KQ to AK when I flop trip Ks.

Since PP's hand histories are screwed up (I think it's because they're not putting the blinds in or something), I really have no idea how I'm doing on a per-hand basis. But here's my guess:

Stats
Total Sessions played: 12
Total Hands played: 1500
Net BB change: -34
BB/100: -2.3

Fortunately, I'm up 180BB at Pacific 1/2 over the same period, so I've actually added $300 to my BR, but I'm worried that I'm not learning how to play good poker. IOW, I'm not going to be happy until I beat this game.

I was considering playing the 1/2 Bad Beat Jackpot tables, but I feel like I'm defeating the purpose. The whole point of playing PP 1/2 is to learn how to beat it so that I can develop as a player and be ready for the higher limits, not just to be able to put a notch on my bedpost.

General Thoughts:
- The 1/2 players seem to be a lot trickier than .5/1. Players will call down with the best hand, not bet until you bet and then raise, and just a lot of slowplaying in general. I lose a lot of money just pushing a hand that turns out to be 2nd best.

- I see a lot of raises for free card plays. One of the other posters felt that it was the exact opposite, so maybe my experience is atypical.

- There's a lot of bluff re-raises, particularly on the flop. A lot of my winners were where I was sure I was beat on the river, but I wasn't.

Thanks for letting me rant...

[josh1122]

I agree on all you said about the normal tables being tricky, liking to slowplay, being tightwads, etc. That's why I play the bad beat tables. Furthermore, from what I read and my minimal experience at them, the 2/4 tables are almost equally as weak as .50/1 and bad beat 1/2. (Can anyone back up this statement?) If you want to make easy money, go to the bad beat tables. But if you are intent on developing your game where you are, good luck and stick with it.

[SnakeRat]

[ QUOTE ]
Tonight was another psychologically devasting session. Down early, then up around 20-30BB, but finally finishing down 11BB. Everytime I think I have this game figured out, I end up losing AQo to AJo, flush to royal flush, and KQ to AK when I flop trip Ks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Scott you gotta accept that bad beats and bad luck are part of the game, you must not let it get to you.
For me a "pyschologically devastating" session is when I play badly, not when the cards are unfavorable.

Try and develop a hard shell which will allow you to stay confident and aggressive through thick and thin.
Be an emotionless mouse-clicking machine.

[btspider]

i have the BR, but I want to hit 10K hands at .50/1.00 before I join you guys. the jackpot tables take .25 from the winner right? if you average 8 wins / 100 hands, thats 1BB/100. are the tables that much juicier to make that up.. well, along with the longshot odds of actually hitting the jackpot?

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tonight was another psychologically devasting session. Down early, then up around 20-30BB, but finally finishing down 11BB. Everytime I think I have this game figured out, I end up losing AQo to AJo, flush to royal flush, and KQ to AK when I flop trip Ks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Scott you gotta accept that bad beats and bad luck are part of the game, you must not let it get to you.
For me a "pyschologically devastating" session is when I play badly, not when the cards are unfavorable.

Try and develop a hard shell which will allow you to stay confident and aggressive through thick and thin.
Be an emotionless mouse-clicking machine.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's funny, because you're saying all the things that I've said over and over again to other people. I'm not sure why I'm taking it so hard. I think there's a little voice in the back of my head that's telling me (you're not good enough to beat this level) and I'm psyching myself out.

I'd really feel better if I had some stats or hand histories to review. I know it's just a crutch, but when I struggled initially at other levels, I could go back and see that I played the hands correctly or that I wasn't really down as far as I thought. When the only yardstick I have is $$, it's tough to find the bright side.

I think it's become a self-fulfilling prophesy for me now. I'm considering switching over to PS and playing their .5/1 game, which I hear is similar to PP 1/2. I'll lose less money there, get a fresh start, and also have hand histories as well. If I can beat that game, I'll be able to switch back to PP with renewed confidence, hopefully.

[josh1122]

Spider,

YES!!! The bad beat tables are extremely weak, loose, and passive. I am frequently called down with mid/bottom pair and gutshot straight draws. They routinely coldcall raises with premium hands(not much reraising) and junk alike and will call bets on the flop with as little as one overcard. All it is is .5/1 with doubled limits.

EDIT - I don't have a sample size big enough to give you mathematical figures on the return of all the quarters(I was at a table where the jp was hit for 210 to me so im not real concerned) in but play the two and you can see the differences for yourself, or you can take my word for it.

[kenewbie]

[ QUOTE ]
The jackpot tables take .25 from the winner right? if you average 8 wins / 100 hands, thats 1BB/100. are the tables that much juicier to make that up.. well, along with the longshot odds of actually hitting the jackpot?

[/ QUOTE ]

I havent seen much difference in the jackpot and non-jackpot tables. I play the jackpot ones because I want the games to be 10-handed. And you dont need to hit the jackpot to get payed, yesterday I got $210 or something because I was at the table when the jackpot hit. If you factor that in aswell as the chance of winning the jackpot, I'm sure the extra rake isnt all that bad. Its more rake ofcourse but something I am willing to pay to avoid playing six handed.

I had a bad session during that jackpot though, there was one uberfish at the table who would play any ace, any two suited, any two facecards and some random hands on top of that. 5 times of 5 when I played with her she had the goods, then kept pissing away my chips to the other players.

I ended up around 10BB but its annoying when people you cannot put on a hand has one over and over in "your" pots.

k

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
I havent seen much difference in the jackpot and non-jackpot tables. I play the jackpot ones because I want the games to be 10-handed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why don't you just play regular the 1/2 ring games? In my experience, most of those are usually full games (or almost full).

[kenewbie]

[ QUOTE ]

Why don't you just play regular the 1/2 ring games? In my experience, most of those are usually full games (or almost full).

[/ QUOTE ]

I do when I can find one, there are very few 10-handed 1/2 games at party though, most tables at the limit is 6-handed. So when I cant find one with space I take a jackpot table instead.

k

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Why don't you just play regular the 1/2 ring games? In my experience, most of those are usually full games (or almost full).

[/ QUOTE ]

I do when I can find one, there are very few 10-handed 1/2 games at party though, most tables at the limit is 6-handed. So when I cant find one with space I take a jackpot table instead.

k

[/ QUOTE ]

Weird -- I sometimes have to wait, but I can usually get one right away or within a minute or two at the most.

Maybe we just play at different times...

[cjromero]

I'm in the same boat you are in, Scott.

I was working my way up to 1/2 from .50/1 around Mothers' Day when I cashed out a big part of my bankroll to buy the wife a new digital camera. The day before Mothers' Day, my PP account stood at $250. Over the next two days, I went on an incredible downswing, dropping all the way down to $70, which is incredibly hard to do at the .50/1 level in such a short period of time.

June and the first half of July were very good to me, as I diligently worked my bankroll back up to $600. I then jumped back up to 1/2. After taking a couple of days to get used to the higher pot size, I began increasing my bankroll steadily at 1/2.

Over the last couple of weeks, breaking and staying above the $1,000 barrier has been a huge psychological hurdle for me. My high point has been $1,051, but I have never actually finished a session above $1,000. I have wanted to simply shut the computer down a few times after breaking the $1,000 mark, but I know that is no real reason to leave a table, so I have resisted the temptation.

The last week or so has been incredibly frustrating, as I have dropped about 100BB. It's not a huge amount, and I know bad swings happen, but it has been difficult to deal with. The last 3 days in particular have been tough. I have been in a pattern where I will sit down for a session and promptly go at least 50 hands without winning a pot. Yesterday afternoon, I only won 1 pot in the first 225 hands I played. Lots of sets over sets, KK v. AA, flush beats at the river, etc. I am usually good at managing my emotions, but trying to stay about $1,000 has been a hard barrier for me to get over, and for some reason it is really bothering me mentally. Maybe because I could see the proverbial light at the end of the 1/2 tunnel and was looking forward to making a run at 2/4.

I have noticed some of the same things you have about the play at 1/2. Lots of bluff re-raising on the flop, and lots of slowplaying with top pair, where players will call a bet on the flop and then pop you on the turn. However, unlike you, I have had a difficult time earning free cards with my strong flush draws and straight draws. People have really been making me pay to try and hit draws.

It seems like advancing through the 1/2 level on Party has been difficult for lots of posters here.

[kenewbie]

[ QUOTE ]

Weird -- I sometimes have to wait, but I can usually get one right away or within a minute or two at the most.

Maybe we just play at different times...

[/ QUOTE ]

That might be it since I'm from Norway. I think my normal playing hours are close to mid-day in your part of the world.

That being said, I'm not the most patient person in the world when it comes to this. I'm sure I can get a table if I wait a little, but I just figured the extra rake isnt that bad.

k

[PotatoStew]

I've been playing 1/2 for a couple weeks now, and haven't found it to be too bad. I agree, there is a bit more trickiness... slowplaying of good hands, bluff raises, etc. But so far PT says I'm at about 8BB/100. That's only for a bit over 1000 hands, so I'm sure it won't last like that. But it at least indicates that things *can* go well at 1/2.

I think table selection is more important. Often, I'll find myself at a tight or tricky/aggressive table, and that makes things difficult. If you can find a loose 10 person table, that makes things considerably easier. Last night, I was playing 3 tables and all of them had 4 to 6 people regularly seeing the flop, so that made for a good night. I've tightened up quite a bit compared to .50/1 as well.... at the lower level I was about 24% VP$IP, at 1/2 I'm at about 19%.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been playing 1/2 for a couple weeks now, and haven't found it to be too bad. I agree, there is a bit more trickiness... slowplaying of good hands, bluff raises, etc. But so far PT says I'm at about 8BB/100. That's only for a bit over 1000 hands, so I'm sure it won't last like that. But it at least indicates that things *can* go well at 1/2.

I think table selection is more important. Often, I'll find myself at a tight or tricky/aggressive table, and that makes things difficult. If you can find a loose 10 person table, that makes things considerably easier. Last night, I was playing 3 tables and all of them had 4 to 6 people regularly seeing the flop, so that made for a good night. I've tightened up quite a bit compared to .50/1 as well.... at the lower level I was about 24% VP$IP, at 1/2 I'm at about 19%.

[/ QUOTE ]

Glad to hear that at least someone is doing well. I'm trying to convince myself that this is just a bad streak.

Now that the PP hand histories seem to be fixed, I might give the weekend a shot before bailing since it's usually softer.

[prayformojo]

I started out pretty rough at 1/2 as well, with a 120 BB downswing (blech). I made some adjustments to my game, and in particular started being a lot more diligent about table selection. I am a lot more willing to leave a rock garden when I find myself in one. After some searching last night, I managed to land a table with 6 or more 1/2 players seeing every flop. Now, at 2k hands in full ring and 4k in 6-max, I am averaging 3.5BB/100 hands.

By the way, I get the feeling some are intentionally avoiding the 6-max tables. Is there any reason for this? I find them as loose as .5/1, but with more maniacs. Yes there can be significant variance, but ultimately they seem quite profitable.

[kiemo]

[ QUOTE ]


Now that the PP hand histories seem to be fixed, I might give the weekend a shot before bailing since it's usually softer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are they fixed?

Last two nights playing 2 tables, I would request a hand history and one table would show up fine and the other would not.

If I played one table only, history was fine.

Cant contribute much to the 1/2 conversation though, but I did have a plenty bad first experience at the .5/1 level.

[Mons]

[ QUOTE ]
I started out pretty rough at 1/2 as well, with a 120 BB downswing (blech).

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/shocked.gif That's one helluva 1/2 swing. I probably would have dropped back to .5/1

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Now that the PP hand histories seem to be fixed, I might give the weekend a shot before bailing since it's usually softer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are they fixed?

Last two nights playing 2 tables, I would request a hand history and one table would show up fine and the other would not.

If I played one table only, history was fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't work for me last night, but I went in this morning and it seemed to work. I was only playing 1 table, but I've heard people speculate that it might be table dependent.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
Over the last couple of weeks, breaking and staying above the $1,000 barrier has been a huge psychological hurdle for me. My high point has been $1,051, but I have never actually finished a session above $1,000. I have wanted to simply shut the computer down a few times after breaking the $1,000 mark, but I know that is no real reason to leave a table, so I have resisted the temptation.

The last week or so has been incredibly frustrating, as I have dropped about 100BB. It's not a huge amount, and I know bad swings happen, but it has been difficult to deal with. The last 3 days in particular have been tough. I have been in a pattern where I will sit down for a session and promptly go at least 50 hands without winning a pot. Yesterday afternoon, I only won 1 pot in the first 225 hands I played. Lots of sets over sets, KK v. AA, flush beats at the river, etc. I am usually good at managing my emotions, but trying to stay about $1,000 has been a hard barrier for me to get over, and for some reason it is really bothering me mentally. Maybe because I could see the proverbial light at the end of the 1/2 tunnel and was looking forward to making a run at 2/4.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's interesting because I ran into the exact same thing when I was trying to move from .05/.10 to .25/.50. I decided that I needed $100 to move, and as I closed in on it, it seemed like an asymptotic limit:

27-May $92.59
28-May $95.97
29-May $92.77
30-May $90.13
30-May $89.18
30-May $93.01
31-May $91.55
1-Jun $94.76
1-Jun $92.93
2-Jun $97.13
3-Jun $98.43
5-Jun $100.48

I remember that I used to hit the "add chips" button over and over to see how close I was. I finally decided that it was counterproductive and forbade myself from looking at my totals until after a session. Maybe I need to do the same thing again so I can focus on my play, not my progress.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I started out pretty rough at 1/2 as well, with a 120 BB downswing (blech).

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/shocked.gif That's one helluva 1/2 swing. I probably would have dropped back to .5/1

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking the same thing. Now I don't feel so bad about my measly 30BB drop. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

You know, now that I think about it, 30BB wouldn't bother me at all if I was playing .5/1. I think the fact that I'm starting a new limit and not seeing any progress after 2 weeks is what's getting to me -- I want to see positive results.

At the end of the day, my BR is fine, it's just my confidence that's shaken. As so many other posters have said, 1500 hands is nothing. If I'm still here at 5000, maybe I'll reconsider.

[SomethingClever]

I moved to 1/2 a couple weeks ago, but it's not a fulltime switch yet.

I started playing one table of 1/2 and one .5/1.

When I got more comfortable, I added another .5/1 table just to keep things interesting.

At first, 1/2 seemed impossible. But it has actually been a lot more profitable (in terms of BB/100) than .5/1 over my last 2K hands.

I think it's a combination of running well and paying more attention to table texture.

My VP$IP is around 13 at 1/2, versus 16 at .5/1, because I tend to never open limp (unless I'm UTG or +1) in 1/2. I do it all the time with small pairs, medium suited connectors and Axs in .5/1, because I can usually count on limpers behind me (and no raises). Although I think if I paid more attention at .5/1, I could identify table situations in which I shouldn't be doing this.

I really think that TAG play is more important at 1/2 than .5/1, with an emphasis on the AG part of that acronym. If you're not raising hands like AJo, KQo and ATs (when nobody else has raised), you're giving up a lot at this level.

Of course, I've had a small taste of 2/4, and I can't wait to get there. As soon as I get my rakeback for the last month, I will have the BR for it /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[prayformojo]

[ QUOTE ]
You know, now that I think about it, 30BB wouldn't bother me at all if I was playing .5/1.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what pulled me through too. It was especially frustrating because I started very strong (and lucky) in .5/1. At the new limit I had to remind myself that I wouldn't have quit if I'd lost $100 at .5/1, so why does losing the same number of bets hurt me now? In the same vein, I don't hyperventilate now when I'm at a good table and up $100 or more. It's all just big bets.

[akira]

Played my first 1/2 session at PP last night. I definitely noticed the difference. Cards were hitting me right on the head though, so I was up 32BB. Seemed a lot tighter pf, with a lot more raising going on. On the flop seemed more aggressive, with people bluff raising more.. The first hand I got was AK and it was 2 bet before it even got to me, and then everyone ended up folding to my bet in the river.. My semibluffs seemed to work more also (raising on a draw, etc)..

I've been playing Pacific 1/2 so far and doing pretty well, although I'm sure I'll need some work on my PP 1/2 game.. Pacific doesn't have any hand histories, so I don't feel like I've been improving much.. Hopefully PP histories now work, so I can get back to posting hands..

[burntazure]

I've yet to play PP 1/2 Full for a long period of time. However, I've played a small number of hands at 1/2 SH. For some reason, I think skill dominates in this format and there are times where I can double my buy in. Have you tried these tables?

Perhaps it is better to play 1/2 full, but I think I will keep playing SH unless I can see myself losing in the longterm.

[JDErickson]

[ QUOTE ]
Scott you gotta accept that bad beats and bad luck are part of the game, you must not let it get to you.
For me a "pyschologically devastating" session is when I play badly, not when the cards are unfavorable.

Try and develop a hard shell which will allow you to stay confident and aggressive through thick and thin.
Be an emotionless mouse-clicking machine.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your thoughts but wanted to add that saying and doing are 2 seperate things. I still find nights where I end up tilting due to numerous suck outs. Strive to improve thats all we can do. I also have learned to recognise when this occurs so I can do something about it.

Jim

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
I've yet to play PP 1/2 Full for a long period of time. However, I've played a small number of hands at 1/2 SH. For some reason, I think skill dominates in this format and there are times where I can double my buy in. Have you tried these tables?

Perhaps it is better to play 1/2 full, but I think I will keep playing SH unless I can see myself losing in the longterm.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really suck at SH play. Other than the SH section of HPFAP (which talks more conceptually than practically), do you know of any good places to learn (other than the school of hard knocks /images/graemlins/confused.gif)?

[burntazure]

Hi. HPFAP only speaks of headsup/3-way play, I think. Usually I try to join a 5 person table so that I can be the sixth to complete the full 6man table. And in this way the transition will be smoother. I am sure you've played at a ten man table when it got slow; the 6-man tables are slightly like that, but they differ in one important point: you know the game format will cap the number of players so play quickly evolves into a more chaotic form.

As far as learning to play there, I mostly read some common beginner's threads in the SH forum to check stats, strategies, and things of that nature... in short, the same thing before I played longhand, just to see what you may be up against.

And then, I think the only solution is just to jump right in and throw chips at them when yr strategy dictates. To assuage some of your fears, I can say that anecdotally my swings in terms of actual dollars when playing at 1/2SH are very close to those that I've had when at .5/1, but in terms of big bets. Of course, there were occasions where I've lost quite a bit at one table and then went to another table in one long sit-down session to do better there and end nearly even or positive. But, I think, the general idea is to play with people long enough so that you can predict their actions even before they make them. If you find that you're right a fair amount this gives you a nice advantage.

One other thing. I might be crazy and just lucky at the moment so it's best to keep yr guard up. I will play 1/2 longhand too, but it's fun to play shorthanded; I guess it's commonly accepted among poker gurus that having a good SH game can help yr LH game. Adios.

[dfscott]

Ok, I finally figured how to master this game:

a) Play on Friday the 13th, and
b) Choose the table named "Ass Backwards"

The reversing effect of Ass Backwards will turn your losses into wins, but of course this will only work on Friday 13th, because you need a double negative to make a positive gain.

Seriously, everything started clicking tonight. I did make a few adjustments (not just the tongue-in-cheek ones listed above):
<ul type="square">
I dumped the Pacific table. I think switching back and forth between the loose Pacific table and the tight PP table was messing me up.
I replaced the Pacific table with another PP 1/2 table. I feel like this tended to even out the variance and also kept me from forcing marginal hands as much since I was playing 2 PP tables.
Rather than just grab the next available 1/2 9-player table, I went and got on waiting lists for tables with $17-$19 average pots. Once I got on one, I made sure I had at least 4 to the flop on average before I posted. This seemed to provide a good balance of pre-flop looseness and a reasonable amount of agression, making it easier to play the big flush draws profitably but still being able to protect hands.
Finally, (and this may be the biggest thing), it's the weekend. Only time will tell how much that mattered.
[/list]
Anyway, the cards were unbelievable tonight -- after I while, I was hitting everything and getting worse hands betting into me, which was a nice change from the past 2 weeks. At the end of the night, I was up 53BB, leaving me at 1.8BB/100 after 1800 hands at 1/2, so I feel like I'm back in the groove again.

Thanks all for the encouragement and putting up with the whining. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[detruncate]

Congratulations and well struck. I'm pulling for all you 1/2 cats. It's great to see you find your groove. I'm looking forward to joining you... especially now that I know the secret. It's going to be tough waiting for another Friday 13th to roll around, though. Oh well. I'm sure I'll find something to amuse myself with in the meantime.

[razor]

Table SELECTION is the secret!

There are a lot of crappy 1/2 games, don't play in them. I'm always looking for avg pots of $19-$20+. If I'm in a game that goes tight I leave and find another table. If the 1/2 games are a little slow (usually early in the week) I just play some 0.50/1.00.

You want games where players play too many hands and go too far with them... find those games and play some good solid poker.

[DeathDonkey]

Played 1/2 for a few hours Friday night - noticing a big change in the average table quality due to the crappy friday night / weekend players. Guess I finally have to use some game selection skills instead of at 0.50/1 where every game is good :P

-DeathDonkey

[kenewbie]

[ QUOTE ]
Table SELECTION is the secret!

[/ QUOTE ]

I know I have said this before, but in my opinion looking for soft tables isnt that productive if you are working on becomming a better player rather than trying to make money.

Lets face it, if we cant hold our own at a good 1/2 table, we sure have a long way to go. And I'd rather pay through the nose at the hand of good players here than at 10/20.

k

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Table SELECTION is the secret!

[/ QUOTE ]I know I have said this before, but in my opinion looking for soft tables isnt that productive if you are working on becomming a better player rather than trying to make money.

[/ QUOTE ]I understand what you're trying to say, but you have to be careful not to go overboard with this idea.Table selection is a skill like any other. If we were just looking for tough games to beat, we could all go over to UB. When I'm learning, 1/2, I want to play generic 1/2, not the Bad Beat tables or the short-handed tables. But I don't think that you need to seek out the toughest tables in order to learn something.

[razor]

Why look for tough games now?

As one moves up limits, the games get incrementally tougher. You adjust and gain experience at each limit, presumably getting better, preparing youself for the next level... by the time you get to 10/20 you'll have a sufficent bankroll and presumably sufficient skill and experience to keep the 10/20 lesson costs to a minimum.

I'm all for taking the occasional shot at the next limit or hanging around a tough game every now and again... but why work on 10/20 skills when one is still 3 or 4 limits below? Besides, how much preparation for 10/20 can 'good' 1/2 players be?

[B Dids]

I'm still on my break from limit, but when I start playing again, I'll be at 1/2.

I HATED full ring at Party. So rockish and boring. I moved to 6 max and I think it's A- more entertaining and B- much more profitable (albeit higher variance).

[dfscott]

Just to follow-up:

My success at 1/2 continues and I'm now closing in on +300BB at 1/2. My rate has improved 4BB/100 after 5000 hands(although Party continues to eat my hand histories, so I'm not sure how accurate that is).

For the benefit of others, I attribute the turnaround to two things:

1) Table selection. I mentioned this before, but just to get it all in one place: Picking the open .5/1 tables works, but for 1/2, you really need to log on, go find some full 1/2 tables with pots in the $18-20 range and get on the waiting list for them (of course, if you're lucky enough to find some open 18-20 tables, by all means jump on 'em). It might take up to 5 min for one to open up, but it's usually closer to 1 or 2.

2) Waiting on the cards. I had an absolutely horrible run of hands when I first started 1/2. I was only single-tabling, so it was slow enough as it was. What ended up happening is that I pushed playable hands harder than I should've because I hadn't seen any cards. When I finally decided to just jump in with both feet and multi-table, I found it much easier to dump those marginal hands. I'm not suggesting that everyone multi-table, but just making it clear that you need to be patient and for me, multi-tabling makes that easier.

I'm only a few bucks away from 300BB for 2/4, but based on my last move and others' 2/4 experience, I'm going to wait until I get a nice pad, around $1400. At that point, I'm going to try a slightly modified method another poster came up with where you add additional tables as your BR climbs. As bison mentioned, it's lot easier to play when the chips aren't screaming at you: "Don't throw us in there on a stone cold bluff! We're almost 1% of your Bankroll! You keep this up and you'll be broke!"

Good luck to everyone else that are still in the 1/2 trenches. I'm still in there with you but now I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. It really is there and there's no magic formula -- just play solid poker and you'll get there sooner or later.

[tiltaholic]

hey df-

Great news! Glad to hear it's possible and thanks for the advice. I hope to follow in your footsteps. My 1/2 update is as follows:

After looking through PT, I decided that my -25BB downswing at 1/2 was just a downswing...then it grew to -40BB...then I became doubtful, and went back to .5/1 to rebuild my confidence. Then I had a 2-day combination ego/bankroll dropkick to the head of -50BB at .5/1, which was equal parts awful cards, awful chance, awful play, and and extra part tilt for good measure. Thinks are getting better now, and I am rebuilding and climbing back up. When the good old bankroll is replenished I'm going to wade back into 1/2...I couldn't agree more with your comment on having a large bankroll - it is key to confidence and solid, worry-less play.

Now don't go forgetting the Micros when you're off and running wild at 2/4...

Best,
t

[tardigrade]

Congratulations, man... I hope to join you someday. I've been playing 1/2 on and off for a while now, both on the 6max and full table, and have been having temporary success, fortunately. I'd hate to start moving up a little and then go on a bad run like you did.

I agree with you on table selection, by the way. I've been ultra-picky about 1/2 tables, and have only joined games with at least $20 avg pot. I'm not one of these guys that's looking for tough games to challenge his skills. The softer the better. The only reason I want to do any moving up is to increase my hourly rate, and if I can't do that, I'd rather just buy another monitor and try to 8-table .5/1.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
Now don't go forgetting the Micros when you're off and running wild at 2/4...


[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry. I plan to move to the SS forum the same way I move to the higher limits -- very gradually. As bison and many others have said, this still feels like "home" to me so it'll be tough to leave and go off to "college" with the big boys. I'll definitely commute for while before moving on-campus. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[sprmario]

Nice thread. I'm at a $601 BR right now and will be playing a mix of .5/1 and 1/2 until I break $700 which will be when I'm up to 4 full 1/2. Here's my current schedule for moving up:

Bankroll Range Tables
$300 to 400 : 4 tables of .5/1
$400 to 500 : 3 tables of .5/1, 1 table of 1/2
$500 to 600 : 2 tables of .5/1, 2 tables of 1/2
$600 to 700 : 1 table of .5/1, 3 tables of 1/2
$800 to 950 : 4 tables if 1/2
$950 to 1100: 3 tables of 1/2, 1 table of 2/4
$1100 to 1250: 2 tables of 1/2, 2 tables of 2/4
$1250 to 1400: 1 tables of 1/2, 3 tables of 2/4
$1400 to 1550: 4 tables of 2/4

My sessions usually last about 60 to 75 min and then I take 30 to 60 min breaks. I don't like to play more than 90 min in a stretch without walking around, getting a drink, or doing some exercise.

I personally have not worried about table selection (I play on party). I might start doing that though. I have noticed that in most 1/2 tables you'll have 4 or 5 decent players and 3 or 4 total fish. I had a really bad night 2 nights ago w/ one fish really sucking out on me badly 4 separate times on 2, 2, 3 and 4 outers on the turn or the river.

Once I get up to 1250 or so I'll work out the schedule for the move to 3/6 but I'm thinking intervals of $200 which will put me 4 tabling 36 once I get to $2000 or so in the bankroll.

[PotatoStew]

Hey dfscott, glad to hear things are turning around... they've turned around for me also, but in the opposite direction: last night I had an 80BB downswing in about 2.5 hours. (By the way, I think I saw you at one of my three tables when I started last night. You should have warned me to quit early! /images/graemlins/wink.gif ) I haven't put the hands into PT yet, but it's bound to take a huge chunk out of my 10BB/100 win rate at 1/2.

I felt like the tables were fine. I think the problem was partially a bad run of cards, combined with my good starting hands not holding up past the flop (lots of people hitting straights and flushes against me). I also need to adjust how I play overcards and top pair, and get better at getting away from marginal situations (although it seemed like whenever I did dump things last night, they would have ended up winning -- very discouraging).

Well, hopefully this is just temporary, and not indicitave of any super-serious problems with my game. I'll have to watch for that, and maybe go to two tables instead of three to concentrate a bit more. Good luck to you -- hope your success continues!

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now don't go forgetting the Micros when you're off and running wild at 2/4...


[/ QUOTE ]

Don't worry. I plan to move to the SS forum the same way I move to the higher limits -- very gradually. As bison and many others have said, this still feels like "home" to me so it'll be tough to leave and go off to "college" with the big boys. I'll definitely commute for while before moving on-campus. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

How quickly things can change...

Last Saturday, things were rocking along for me. I had been playing 2/4 full-time for about a week ago and had built a $1600 BR. My stats at that time were:

Hands: 25,600
VP$IP: 19.57
PFR%: 7.00
Post-flop Agr: 1.70
BB/100: 5.55

Life was good.

Then on Sunday, the wheels came off. Monday, the engine fell out. Tuesday, it burst into flames. And last night, the whole thing exploded. Here are the stats for that 4-day period:

Hands: 1,435
VP$IP: 16.52
PFR%: 6.06
Post-flop Agr: 1.68
BB/100: (-10.89)

Other than the BB/100 figure and the fact that I tightened up due to not having a lot of good starting hands, I wasn't aware of a change in my play style (and I posted several hands for confirmation). However, I lost over $500, or about 30% of my total BR. As my BR dropped, I moved down in limits, going from 3 2/4 tables, to 2 2/4 tables and 1 1/2 table, finally to 1 2/4 table and 2 1/2 tables. The net result is that I lost around 150BB.

Now I'm sitting at just under $1100 and trying to determine my next move. I thought about moving back down to 1/2 full-time, but I think I might be even more conservative and move to .50/1. Until I have a winning session, I'm not going to feel comfortable playing, and I want to prevent any further damage to my (irreplaceable) BR.

In addition, I don't have that many hands at .5/1 (3000) or 1/2 (5000), so I think building up some more experience at both of those levels would be a good thing. I was also a little shell-shocked by magnitude of the losses, since I moved all the way from playing .25/.50 to 2/4 in just over a month, so I hadn't really adjusted to the increased size of the swings.

I'm revising my goals as follows:

Step 1 - Take a break. No poker over the Labor Day weekend at all (an easy commitment since I'm going out of town). I still might do some poker reading, though. Since I just finshed SSH for the 2nd time, I might pick something a little more introspective such as PoP or Zen.

Step 2 - 3-table .5/1 until I either a) increase my BR to $1200 (approx. +100BB @ .5/1) or b) drop below $800. If it's b), the rest of this plan is trashed and I have to re-assess.

Step 3 - Start 3-tabling PP 1/2. If I drop back to $1000, go back to Step 2. When I hit $1400 (+100BB @ 1/2), I'll start slowly adding in 2/4 tables, one for each $200 earned.

Step 4 - At $1800, return to 3-tabling 2/4 full-time.

In any case, I'm back to the micro forums for a while, so you should definitely see more of me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif