One more hand

[hummusx]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="C00000">saw showdown</font>

UTG (t340)
<font color="C00000">Hero (t2735)</font>
MP1 (t1916)
MP2 (t2509)
CO (t430)
Button (t1435)
SB (t630)
<font color="C00000">BB (t2915)</font>

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises to t300</font>, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls t300, <font color="666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls t200,

Flop: (t950) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets t900</font>, MP2 folds, BB calls t900.

Turn: (t2750) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets t1535 (All-In)</font>, BB calls t1535.

River: (t5820) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t5820
<font color="green">Main Pot: t5820 (t5820), between Hero and BB.</font>

[adanthar]

I usually bet far less on the flop (something like 500-600) and completely shut down on the turn unless the villain is a total fish. What will he call with, other than clubs, that doesn't beat TP 2'nd kicker?

I do not like big stacks' flat calls on two streets one bit in no limit, especially on a flop like that one. The flush draw threat is a very distant second to AK or a set.

On the other hand, if he's a calling station, good play.

[AleoMagus]

strange chip counts. I assume this was a 2 or 3 table sng.

The biggest mistake here in my opinion is the raise with KQo in early position. I've done it myself though.

It's a trouble hand because you are dominated by AQ and AK and they represent a lot of whaT that will give you action here.

You are most likely to get calls here by AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AK, AQ, and maybe some smaller pairs and suited broadway cards. Against most of these you are behind. This is not to say that there isn't a time to be raising with KQo but UTG+1 is probably not one of them, tempting as it can be.

Anyways, I like the 3XBB raise this time. The roughly pot sized bet on the flop seems good to me also, especially with a probable inside straight draw w/overcard and that flush draw. If one of them is on AQ or AJ they probably have to throw it away here. Same with the flush draw.

After the lone check-call, I would be all-in on the turn also. AK would probably have re-raised preflop (and raised the flop) so I figure BB for a flush draw or maybe two pair (KT) or even a set. These are unlikely in my opinion though because I doubt two pair or a set wants to let the flush in this easy. I suppose AT is also a possibility. Most likely, you are ahead though and I'd be all-in expecting a fold from him.

The call sucks and the river club is even worse. Still, he might have J9 or KJ or something.

Those are my immediate thoughts anyways

Regards
Brad S

[AleoMagus]

[ QUOTE ]
What will he call with, other than clubs, that doesn't beat TP 2'nd kicker?

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly why I'd be betting the pot here

If you bet only 500, it's 500 to win about 2000 for the flush draw. No way I'm giving those odds

A 900 bet into the pot of 950 only gives 900 to win 2750.

that's 4-1 vs 3-1 pot odds

Better to make him pay for the suckout or get out now.

Any other opinions?

Brad S

[adanthar]

If he's a loose but decent player at this limit, most of the clubs he could be holding are even money or small favorites over Hero on a flop like this (AJ-QJ, J9-97).

But I'm not really worried about clubs at all; what I don't like is that a big stack overcalled a raise and the flop is extremely ambiguous. There are a whole bunch of things Hero is behind, and relatively few that will just call he is ahead of...but 77 or even 99 will fold to a decent bet anyway. So I'm firing off 500 to see what happens.

But let's say I bet 900. MP folds his sevens. BB...calls. If he is a decent player, he absolutely has to know that he's not winning more than a few hundred more chips from me on a third club. (If he's really good, maybe he can bluff into me on a third club; maybe not. At this limit, we can ignore that possibility right now.) Therefore, most flush draws won't even flat call this bet (bad ones may fold; good ones might checkraise.) I put him on something different; it might be a K with a lower or higher kicker (possibly with clubs), something really weird like QQ-JJ, or it might be 2 pair+. Either way, however, I don't want to put my tournament at risk with one pair, although I would be far more inclined to shove AK.

The best way I can describe it is that this call smells really funny and I don't think I'm ahead often enough to justify pushing just because two cards of the same suit are on the board.

[AleoMagus]

[ QUOTE ]
although I would be far more inclined to shove AK.

The best way I can describe it is that this call smells really funny and I don't think I'm ahead often enough to justify pushing just because two cards of the same suit are on the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

... yeah, I know the feeling I guess.

I'd still be putting 900 in here, but I think what you are saying hits at the heart of what I said in my other post.

It's your hand (well, the original poster's hand) that is the problem here. KQo in early position

A preflop raise with AK and this hand would feel so much better (obviously). The KQo early is such a trouble hand. It and AJo are probably two of the most misplayed hands in NL hold'em becasue they are so pretty but find theselves in situations like this so much.

They are great when really shorthanded but when you start playing them too strongly with an almost full table from early position, decisions get difficult.

Regards
Brad S

[adanthar]

Yeah, you're right. I've begun limping or folding it in EP when big stacks are around; it just isn't good enough to stand up to a call.

FWIW, pushing with AK might be wrong, too. There really isn't that much difference, unless I think BB would play AK this passive himself [but that is often a great line to take.] You know...this whole hand/flop is tricky and pretty much blows, and I think with anything under KQ /images/graemlins/club.gif or 2 pair I'd want to get away cheap. I really, really, *really* do not want a big bet to be called here.

Ugh. The last time I had a hand like this I wound up calling a river bet I really shouldn't have.