TT in LMP facing an UTG raise

[slogger]

Party 20+2 NL SNG (first hand of 2nd level; blinds 15-30): 9 players

(The only hand UTG has played so far was the 4th hand of the game - 2 limp to him in SB, and he raises to 150 - 10xBB. 2nd limper calls. Flop: A/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif. He bets 50 and limper calls. Turn 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif. He checks, limper bets 300, he calls. They check a river blank through. My boy has QJo (no hearts) and his pair of Js are good).

UTG (1315)
Hero (1206)
Button (850)

UTG raises to 80, folded to Hero who finds pocket Tens.

(At this point, the earlier hand had not struck me (must have been multitabling). I'd like to hear what people's standard plays are in this situation both with and without the read from the earlier hand.)

Hero calls 80, folded to Button (yet to play a hand), who makes it 175 to go. UTG calls. Now what?

I really think this might be a place where I need to fold or push, and I think a push would be reckless, as button is representing at least AK, given the UTG raise and MP call.

I ended up calling here because:

(a) I was getting about 5 to 1 with decent implied odds for my set, and
(b) I could afford to risk another 95 chips, given my stack size

But I felt crappy and weak about it because I felt like I was going to have to fold any flop without a T.

Flop: (Pot = T570) J /images/graemlins/heart.gif 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

UTG checks, Hero checks, Button bets 300, and we both fold.

How did I do?

[adanthar]

I might have reraised in the first place, but once you call and the button reraises you're going to have to check/fold a T-less flop no matter what. Well played.

Yes, he could have AK, but anything else beats you and you really don't want to spend the rest of your stack finding out.

[pstripling]

I fold preflop to the UTG. Raising 10xBB indicated he does not want a caller and was semi-bluffing. The 80 bet UTG at this level is the standard bring in and is at least 2 overcards IMO. If you flat call, you are in the position of someone waking up with a big hand later on (for this reason I don't push either) and raising thus committing more chips with a slight favorite or a heavy dog.

[durron597]

Another thing to note: if you had raised UTG, if the button then raises you, you are 100% he has AA/KK/QQ/AK and should fold. That way there is no doubt.

Another way to approach this hand is to consider playing the TT only for set value, which means you played it EXACTLY right, because you first thing you will hit UTG hard if you hit your set, and after the button raises you can be pretty sure you will bust him if you hit so you can still call the last 95 (with the chips already in the pot it's enough).

[EverettKings]

Ugh. That's a toughie.

I'd probably reraise preflop (to 150 or so) to discourage other callers and isolate the raiser, with position. If the button still comes over the top you can let it go.

The flop's tricky either way, but you really have to muck here. It's either AK or JJ-AA, so I'd pick a better spot.

Just my 2 cents

[slogger]

I see your point, but I think knowing how the rest of preflop action played out may have affected your assessment (please explain why I'm wrong).

The way I see it, the UTG raise is on the small side of standard for the 15/30 blind level. Perhaps I should be putting more thought into the potential action behind me, but here, it's not like I was in EP, but rather CO-1. You're saying you'd still fold TT in this position, with over 1200 in chips? Would it change if you had less than 1,000? Less than 500? More than 1500?

I'd like to hear more about your reasoning.

[pstripling]

In the position you are in I believe it is a clear reraise or fold situation. If I were shortstacked (say with 500-600 chips) and looking to take a stand I might choose this spot and go all in. With the chip position you had, there is no reason to enter what is a marginal situation. If the UTG had raised 80 and 2 or 3 people had called, then I would certainly call and hope for a set. You will probably get paid off if it hits. With it getting folded to you the tens become stronger on their own but have plenty of chance of being beaten on the flop, hence the fold/reraise strategy.

If you reraise you need to reraise enough to make a hand like KJ/QK/JQ fold, but not so much that you are pot commited to call if you get reraised. So...in this situation the raise becomes to about 300. Now you have jeopardized about 1/4 of your chips with what MAY be the best hand, but a vulnerable hand nonetheless that will be tricky to play post flop if called.

So the way I see it, you can fold and wait for a better spot or you can take the lead with this hand and spend 300 to win 80 or maybe 300.

All of the above only focuses on you and the UTG... if someone else enters the pot I feel the TT is in serious trouble.

[slogger]

Well said. I think I have certainly gotten myself in trouble lately (got off to just a terrible start in my $20+2s after crushing the $10+1s) over compensating by pushing the envelope with too many hands - it's not as easy to cruise onto the bubble and then steal my way into good money position in the 20s as it was in the 10s ans so my patience has taken a hit).

I think there are arguments for both calling for set value and folding here. The reraise I think is just risking too much for too little at this stage in the chip position I was in.

Thanks for clarifying - you have definitely helped me get some of priorities back in order. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[adanthar]

TT is far too good to fold for what is essentially a minraise on level 2 of an SNG, especially to a clown and especially x3 when Hero has a decent stack.

However, because the guy is a clown, reraising *any* amount will not make KQ or even QJ fold. Those folds come on a raggedy looking flop, but that's about it. Instead, I would consider reraising because, since the guy is a clown, he can also make this raise with A9o or K8s, hands that you dominate; clowns who call reraises will usually automagically put me on AK, and if the flop comes 9 high and he paired his kicker, I'm taking his stack. However, since my position is pretty bad and I don't want to pot commit myself if he comes back and minreraises me again, a call is OK, too.

But there's no way I'm folding against this guy for 80 chips.