C/r fold to the 3-bet?

[BottlesOf]

Here's another hand from the FW trip.

5/10 Kill

I open-raise 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif in EP. Folds around to CO who 3-bets. Blinds drop and I call.

The CO is passive. He plays too many hands, but he's rarely raising. I'd say he's better than average for the table of 10, but that doesn't say much, as after JoeTall, SFer and myself, few have a clue.

Flop (6.8 Sbs) T /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I check, he bets, I raise, he 3-bets. Laying 11.8:1, I fold right here.

What do you think?

[Yeknom58]

why not just bet?

Fold seems reasonable.

[arkady]

I suppose a passive fella wouldnt be doing this with a flush draw or AK/AQ - you are drawing to 2 outs, fold is correct.

[sublime]

Laying 11.8:1, I fold right here

This would be a spot where a loose call would be "ok" I would think.

[sfer]

I'm pretty sure that woman you loved coldcalled and was trapped in between you two guys. That's why the checkraise made sense to me on the flop.

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
I check, he bets, I raise, he 3-bets. Laying 11.8:1, I fold right here.

What do you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

I prefer to lead and call a raise, then check-fold the turn unimproved. With that flop you aren't fooling anyone with your check-raise. For the same 2 bets you get to see the turn. Who knows? You might be rewarded with the ability to continue to the river if you turn an 8.

Garland

[BottlesOf]

SFer, you are right. Things make more sense now.

REVISED ACTION:

I open-raise 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif in EP. MP calls, folds to CO who 3-bets. Blinds drop and we call.

The CO is passive. He plays too many hands, but he's rarely raising. I'd say he's better than average for the table of 10, but that doesn't say much, as after JoeTall, SFer and myself, few have a clue.

Flop (9.8 sbs): T /images/graemlins/heart.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I check, MP checks CO bets, I raise, MP drops, CO3-bets. Laying 14.6:1, I fold right here.

Now what do you think?

[sublime]

Now what do you think?

I still think you can make a loose call here.

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
I check, MP checks CO bets, I raise, MP drops, CO3-bets. Laying 14.6:1, I fold right here.

Now what do you think?

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's see. Three to the flop for 3 bets each + SB and BB who have dropped = 9+0.6+1 = 10.6. Check to CO who bets +1, you checkraise +2, MP drops, CO 3-bets + 2. I think it's 15.6:1.

Now with the backdoor straight+set+implied odds, you have to call the 3-bet for those odds.

And the flop check-raise makes more sense now.

Garland

[sublime]

Now with the backdoor straight+set+implied odds, you have to call the 3-bet for those odds.

Nevermind the slight chance hero could be ahead.

[BottlesOf]

You are neglecting the price to play. Rake is now maxed out (or $1 in the pot away from being maxed out, which it surely will be) The SB is 2/5 not 3/5 an sb.

However, If you insist on 14.8, so be it, since that is technically what it is at the time, so be it. I feel 14.6 is more accurate.

[sublime]

However, If you insist on 14.8, so be it, since that is technically what it is at the time, so be it. I feel 14.6 is more accurate.

JBB-

I have been playing in those games for a couple of months now, and have seen some weird ass overcard play. I think you should call this 3-bet.

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
You are neglecting the price to play. Rake is now maxed out (or $1 in the pot away from being maxed out, which it surely will be) The SB is 2/5 not 3/5 an sb.

However, If you insist on 14.8, so be it, since that is technically what it is at the time, so be it. I feel 14.6 is more accurate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Still call...for aforementioned reasons /images/graemlins/cool.gif.

Garland

[Yeknom58]

Now the CR makes more sense.

Now that the pot is bigger..I'm thinking you can call the CR.

[Joe Tall]

You finally post this and f-up the action. Nice.

You were getting 15:1 or close to it and you forgot to add my quote, "Whatever you just did, it was wrong", when you folded.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[sfer]

Since we're adding quotes, you should point out that the preflop action went JBB raises, coldcall, CO asks, "Who raised? Oh, him," and 3-bet.

[BottlesOf]

Yeah, I thought that might taint people's advice, if YOU said my play was outright wrong. (A fact I'm still not 100% convinced of)

[Joe Tall]

A fact I'm still not 100% convinced of

Getting 15:1, after c/r-ing and then folding for one more bet is...um, how do I put this...

http://www.wrong-online.com/napis.gif

Peace,
Joe Tall

[StellarWind]

You checkraise at extra cost for the explicit purpose of knocking out MP and then fold for one bet after you get your wish. Totally inconsistent. Why are you investing so heavily in protecting a hand you think is unlikely to be good unless you hit a set?

You are getting about 15:1 plus implied odds to draw to a set and backdoor straight draw. That's adequate odds to call.

You neglected the very important practical point that this type of passive opponent will give you a free card quite often on the turn, especially if they were betting an unmade hand. Then you can take another shot at your set and possibly call the river when you don't improve.

sfer's observation about the table action is also interesting. If your opponent has decided that you're a wiseguy you may not be getting standard treatment. His remark may be a wake-up call that he has started thinking about you. Maybe he thinks you are a LAG or vulnerable to being bluffed. Those who actually were at the table can judge this better.