Another HORSE question

[The Armchair]

Let's say we use the blinds as per Home Poker Tourney (http://homepokertourney.com/blinds.htm) for the Hold'em variants. How should we structure the antes, bring-ins, and betting rounds for the Stud variants?

[Lottery Larry]

Bring ins should be about 20-40% of the max bet. If your chips are limited, figure out the blinds progression, then the bring-in and adjust the blinds progression as needed.

I think you don't want the antes to be more than 2x the bring in nor do you want the antes and bring in to be much more than 1.5:1 of the preflop bet.

As much as you can, I would keep the same betting structure between shared board games (HE, Omaha) and individual games (stud). I'd go with a structured betting progression that stays the same regardless of what game is in place. Change the forced bring-in and antes to fit within that.

I've never played this in a casino so I don't know what they do. Those are just my thoughts from when I was trying to figure this out.

"Dealer antes for the table" also seems like a good idea- no one gets up to skip contributions that way

[The Armchair]

I think you misunderstood the question.

If the blinds in Hold'em are 10/20, what should the bets for Stud be? I'd put ante at 1, bring in at 3, 3rd/4th steets at 10, and 5th-7th at 20... but remember, Hold'em is really 20/40. So, should it be 2-5-20-40 for Stud?

[Nelly]

Here is how we do it - going with your HE blinds 10/20 example.

Hold'em $20-$40 (with $10-$20 blinds)
Stud $20-$40. Bring in $10. Total ante = $20
The trick is the dealer pays the total ante (equal to one small bet). This saves us having to have an ante denomination and keeps the ante paid to about $2 per person (assuming 10 players - a little higher for fewer players).

[Lottery Larry]

I understood it fine- just tried to give the answer in a formulistic way.

Nelly's example fit it pretty well to what I was trying to say:

N- "Stud $20-$40. Bring in $10. Total ante = $20"

Me- "Bring ins should be about 20-40% of the max bet." [Nelly's was 50%- you could make it $8 but you'd need smaller chips- $10 is probably better. If the next level was $30/60, the forced bring in could stay at $10 or go to $15]

N- "Stud $20-$40. Bring in $10. Total ante = $20"

Me- "I think you don't want the antes to be more than 2x the bring in nor do you want the antes and bring in to be much more than 1.5:1 of the preflop bet."

Nelly's example is a perfect example of the maxes here.

Me- "As much as you can, I would keep the same betting structure between shared board games (HE, Omaha) and individual games (stud). I'd go with a structured betting progression that stays the same regardless of what game is in place. Change the forced bring-in and antes to fit within that.
If your chips are limited, figure out the blinds progression, then the bring-in and adjust the blinds progression as needed."

Did my post make more sense now with Nelly's numbers?

[The Armchair]

It does, but my main goal was to figure out if Stud is played at the level of the Hold'em blinds, or the Hold'em bets.

[The Armchair]

What do you do when the ante takes a big chunk out of the dealer's stack (if not putting him all in)?

I understand the advantage of the dealer ante system, especially that you get to color up and not have to deal with $1 chips, but I'd hate to have to put someone all-in blind for ease of math. Have you had this problem?

[Nelly]

Hi Armchair,

Hmm. Never had the problem. With the dealer's ante being the same value as one bet anyone who is going all-in paying the ante is significantly short-stacked anyway.

The way I view it is the one ante payment is equivalent to what they would pay if they paid individual antes for a whole round. So they play for "free" before and after they ante. If it so happens they have one small bet left when it is time to pay their turn then so be it.

Having the dealer pay the ante once per round instead of each player each hand has little difference in the game IMHO other than saving another chip denomination. If you are comfortable with having an ante denomination then by all means add another color and have each person ante each hand. I doubt it will ever make a large difference either way so go with what you like.

For the record I like and agree with Larry's suggestions. We chose ours because it best fit the "general accepted" guidelines and our denominations.

Cheers.

[The Armchair]

[ QUOTE ]
Having the dealer pay the ante once per round instead of each player each hand has little difference in the game IMHO other than saving another chip denomination. If you are comfortable with having an ante denomination then by all means add another color and have each person ante each hand. I doubt it will ever make a large difference either way so go with what you like.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem I see is that the last person to deal is at a big advantage compared to the first. Let's say both players have exactly the ante amount left, and that the dealer antes for the table. The one who deals first is all-in, while the other could wait up to 7 hands before pushing in.

On the other hand, if the antes are regular, neither is at a disadvantage.

In any event, it's academic, as we have 5 chip denominations and can always cycle if need be.

[mmcd]

LIMIT, H.O.(blinds), R.S.E.(ante/bringin),
15/30: 10/15, 2/5

20/40: 10/20, 3/5

30/60: 20/30, 5/10

50/100: 25/50, 10/15

75/150: 50/75, 15/25

100/200: 50/100, 20/40

150/300: 100/150, 30/50

200/400: 100/200, 40/50

300/600: 200/300, 50/100

400/800: 200/400, 75/100