Have I become a complete LAG. [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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RustedCorpse

08-12-2004, 01:10 AM

In the last few months I've been playing live club games far more frequently. After recently switching back to online play I think I may be playing too aggressively? I'm going to post a few hands comments on any/all streets would be appreciated, thanks in advance.

HAND 1
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (7 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero raises, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls,

Flop: (10.50 SB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, MP1 3-bets, MP2 folds, Button folds, BB calls, Hero caps, MP1 calls, BB calls.

Turn: (11.25 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, MP1 bets, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (14.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB bets, Hero folds, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 16.25 BB
Main Pot: 16.25 BB, between BB and MP1. > Pot won by BB (16.25 BB).

Results in white below: 
BB shows 8h 7s (straight, eight high).
MP1 shows 2s 4c (straight, six high).
Outcome: BB wins 16.25 BB. 

Hand 2
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
Hero raises, 3 folds, MP2 3-bets, 3 folds, SB calls, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets, SB calls, BB folds, Hero raises, MP2 3-bets, SB calls, Hero folds.

Turn: (10 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, MP2 bets, SB calls.

River: (12 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
SB checks, MP2 bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB
Main Pot: 14 BB, between MP2 and SB. > Pot won by MP2 (14 BB).

Results in white below: 
SB shows Qh Ad (high card, ace).
MP2 shows 4h 5s (one pair, fives).
Outcome: MP2 wins 14 BB. 

HAND 3
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
6 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls,

Flop: (4.50 SB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.25 BB) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 6.25 BB
Main Pot: 5.25 BB, won by BB.
Pot 2: 1 BB, returned to BB.

Results in white below: 
BB doesn't show.
Outcome: BB wins 6.25 BB. 

HAND 4
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
3 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: 3.25 BB
Main Pot: 2.75 BB, won by Hero.
Pot 2: 0.50 BB, returned to Hero.

Results in white below: 
No showdown. Hero wins 3.25 BB. 

HAND 5
Disregard.

HAND 6
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif. UTG+1 posts a blind of $0.50.
1 fold, UTG+1 (poster) checks, 1 fold, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks,

Flop: (7 SB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (7 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls, SB folds, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, Button calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 folds, Button calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB
Main Pot: 13.50 BB, between Hero and Button. > Pot won by Button (13.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Kd Ts (two pair, kings and tens).
Button shows 9h Qd (straight, king high).
Outcome: Button wins 13.50 BB. 

HAND 7
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 4 folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks,

Flop: (4 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+2 folds, Button calls.

Turn: (3 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, Button folds.

Final Pot: 4 BB
Main Pot: 3 BB, won by Hero.
Pot 2: 1 BB, returned to Hero.

Results in white below: 
No showdown. Hero wins 4 BB. 

HAND 8
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: (7 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
MP3 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8 BB
Main Pot: 7 BB, won by MP3.
Pot 2: 1 BB, returned to MP3.

Results in white below: 
No showdown. MP3 wins 8 BB. 

HAND 9
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks,

Flop: (6 SB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (6 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 folds, Button calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, Button checks.

River: (5.50 BB) 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG folds, UTG+2 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB
Main Pot: 9.50 BB, between Button, SB, BB and UTG+2. > Pot won by SB (9.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
SB shows Kc Js (two pair, kings and jacks).
BB shows Th 5h (two pair, tens and fives).
UTG+2 shows 9c 9d (one pair, nines).
Button shows Jh 9s (one pair, jacks).
Outcome: SB wins 9.50 BB.

RustedCorpse

08-12-2004, 01:18 AM

My opinion of what I've done wrong in the hands...

Hand 1
At the turn I was going to check call down. However IMO the fourth diamond sealed my fate.

Hand 2
Should I have even raised here? Obviously if I'm going to stay in yes, but maybe I should be folding 4 players with that ragged of a flop I thought a raise was in order.

Hand 3
No excuse for my actions. Disregard, fold on the flop.

Hand 4
KJo is one of my biggest leaks. I post this hand because it's what I felt was a good preflop situation to play it. Am I wrong?

Hand 5
Disregard. Wrong hand

Hand 6
Should I have checked the river?

Hand 7
Would this have been a bad preflop raise?

Hand 8
Am I weak tight here? The player was somewhat passive betting into me after my check raise told me I'm beat IMO

helpmeout

08-12-2004, 02:41 AM

1. Pretty hard to know what MP1 has I think you played it right.

2. Why raise? all you have is 2 overcards, I'd have put MP2 on an overpair. Call the flop then fold after the turn card.

3. Hand 3 well I dont like betting when you have nothing, it is likely that at low limits they arent going to fold.

6. Nothing much you can do about that

8. Again raising when you have nothing? Low limit players dont fold with top pair low kicker, or even second or 3rd pair. You got nothing, limp and fold to a bet.

sfer

08-12-2004, 09:14 AM

Hand 1: Bet the turn.

Hand 2: You do that raise the flop and fold to a 3-bet thing a lot live. It's bad. I would guess there are a number of live players who 3-bet you on the flop expecting you to fold when heads-up. Folding a likely live 6 out draw getting like 22 to 1 is pretty bad.

Hand 3: That's a pretty bad turn card.

Hand 4: Fine if MP is a weak limper and the blinds are tight and cooperative so you can isolate him.

Hand 5: I have disregarded.

Hand 6: Why did you try to checkraise that flop? A bet can come from anywhere, and you don't want the field to call 2. Just bet. Turn and river are fine. The last thing you want to see is either of those streets getting checked through. Lots of worse hands will call.

Hand 7: Fine.

Hand 8: I don't see what the flop raise accomplishes. What is your plan here?

Hand 9: Huh?

DMBFan23

08-12-2004, 10:05 AM

Hand 1. I play it the same. (EDIT: am I weak for not raising the turn?)

Hand 2. you have to call the flop 3 bet, getting 21-1 and closing the action. I'd call one turn bet at that point too, but fold if it's bet and raised to me. (EDIT: unless I caught an A or Q, and then its on...)

Hand 3. I don't understand the turn call. would you raise the river if you hit your flush? would you call if three bet? what's your plan for a T or J?

Hand 4. good flop bet, I like to raise this in the CO as well with only one limper. not too LAG IMO.

Hand 5. ok.

Hand 6. I would play this the same, and I would cry.

Hand 7. looks ok to me.

Hand 8. this is really LAG IMO. nice raise preflop, but I cannot imagine you have the best hand on the flop, or are likely to improve to it. I'd fold the flop. what were you trying to accomplish with your flop raise? would you have raised the turn if you caught a non heart Q or K?

Hand 9. umm...good fold? Q6o = trash. I'm not even sure this is a complete from the SB.

Uppercut

08-12-2004, 09:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 9. umm...good fold? Q6o = trash. I'm not even sure this is a complete from the SB.

[/ QUOTE ]

It isn't.

skierdude1000

08-12-2004, 09:24 PM

LAG means overagressive right?

Luv2DriveTT

08-12-2004, 11:10 PM

1. Bet the turn. Fold if raised - I would qualify your play as not LAG, it's Passive on the turn. Be more agressive, but know when to turn away.
2. Bet out the flop, you are in the wrong position for a check raise
3. Raise the turn, represent the Queen. Its a risk that will pay off sometimes. No risk, no return. Fold if 3-bet from the villan
4. I wouldn't have raised PF (build up more opponents that way), but nice agressive play on the Flop
6. good use of the check-raise. Played very agressivly... well done. Shite happens though, you lost the hand. I'm surprised the villian didn't raise on the Turn or the River - he was very passive, probably afraid that you had the flush.
7. Nice
8. You have bug cards against the A, 5 players saw the flop. Someone has got to have an Ace, bad play IMHO. After you saw the Qh why did you fold? You weren't afraid of the flush draw since I think you thought your opponent had the Aces, so why fold now?

9.#?$#?@!?&^%???

In da club /images/graemlins/club.gif

RustedCorpse

08-13-2004, 01:23 AM

Sorry ignore hand 9, I didn't even play it to begin with I don't know how it got in there.

RustedCorpse

08-13-2004, 01:25 AM

With hand 8 the guy pretty much had been betting every flop, I raise to see if he actually had it? When he bets out on the turn again I figure he actually does.

EdSchurr

08-13-2004, 01:58 AM

I've always thought it was Loose AGgressive. I think you could consider it overaggressive, because if you are aggressive and you're playing too many hands...

MicroBob

08-13-2004, 04:52 AM

dear god, 9 hands (okay...i guess it's really 7) in one post.
what a pain.

i'm lecturing to you on this with hopes that others will see it and stop doing it.

with that said...
i agree with sfer on hands 1 and 2.
i bet the turn on hand 1. there's no way you should be that scared yet.

the fold on hand 2 was terrible.

i find it interesting that you are concerned about being too loose yet are actually playing these hands too tight.

okay...hold on while i head back to look at the next couple of hands....

okay....again agree with sfer on hands 3 and 4. and these were on the looser side.

on hand 3 there's little chance i'm staying in on the turn.
your spade outs are very possibly not outs at all. it's a double-paired board and you don't have any piece of it.
even against a known habitual bluffer i am getting out of this one.

hand 4 i would typically play the same way. although this is admittedly a bit aggressive.

alright....moving on (after going back to check again) -

hand 6 - i like the C/R here. not sure why sfer is so much against it. would it be so tragic if the field had to call 2 on a draw-heavy board? give me details on this logic as i'm still working some of this stuff in SSHE (and the forums).
knocking out the inside-st8 draws (Q9, AJ, J9, etc) or charging them 2 bets is okay i think.
and if it works out that it's bet immediately (meaning they only have to call 1 more after my raise) then i'm getting some decent value on my 2-pair aren't I?

be glad the button was so weak-tight because you should have lost more on this. i would NOT check the river here as i would guess my 2-pair is good more than 55% of the time (as per HEFAP) to make it a decent value-bet. they could both have K with lousy kicker or T with decent kicker.
yes, it's a scary board and there are a lot of hands that can beat you....but nobody is showing evidence that they actually might have one of those hands.

hand 7 - okay by me.

hand 8 - you say that the bettor in hand 8 was playing everything. in that case i think i'm okay with how you made a play at this after it was checked by the first three guys and bet by a hyper-aggressive guy 2nd to last to act. however, i think i might be way too LAG in my thinking and i would be far more likely to fold this in auto-pilot multi-table mode.
if he was only on a flush-draw then it just came through for him on the turn. if he had an A then you were already losing anyway.
if the turn card was Qs instead of Qh i might call it down.
but i also might be pretty damn LAGgy too.

you're looking at the right hands to ask questions about for the most part....and are asking good questions imo.

your thinking is pretty good in general in my extremely non-expert opinion...or, in the very least, you're on the right track.
you need to focus a bit more on the pot-odds (like that awful fold in hand 2) and reading the board (getting too scared too fast in hand 1....courageously going when you should have been running in hand 3).

sorry for getting so hyper about posting so many hands at once...just a pet-peeve of mine.

MicroBob

08-13-2004, 05:29 AM

i was thinking more on hand 2.

as a general rule....if you have already put 2 bets in there are VERY few situations where you wouldn't call a 3rd bet on that round. especially in a multi-way pot.

your pot-odds here are just too huge.

the same applies PF...if you are in for 2 bets PF there is almost no reason why you can't call a 3rd bet.

the exception to this rule that i can think of is if it's a bluff-raise steal try gone bad on a later street. even then, you will sometimes have the odds to call it down.

if anyone else has other exceptions that i'm just forgetting then please feel free to add them.

but sfer is right...you have 6 outs which appear to be potentially decent.
and you are getting 21:1 to call 1 more bet.

in situations like this, just look at the size of the pot and if you have a reasonable draw you should stay in.

in a pot of this size (21:1) you would usually be okay to stay in even with a pair of 2's since you are getting almost enough odds to try to hit your 2-outer and hit a set.

if you have bottom pair with a lousy kicker (32 for example) here you have almost a 5-outer (set or 2-pair) not to mention your gutshot straight draw.

basically, if it's not a scary board...then you have to stay in with almost ANY piece of the board when the pot is this big. this includes strong overcards such as your hand.