Biggest stakes on Party that SSH still applies.

[AdamL]

Hi guys,

I'm just wondering, at what level on party/empire does Miller's SSH end and Ciaffone's "Middle Limit Hold'Em" begin?

I know there is no hard and fast line. But if you could give me a general idea, I'd be better off than I am now.

I've played mostly small stakes NL and 2/4 at Paradise in the past and I'm not sure how Party/Empire compares and how much of SSH is useful at the higher levels.

Adam

PS -- I already own the book. This won't affect my decision to buy it /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[stoxtrader]

I play the 15/30 and think that both are very applicable. I particularly like the protecting your hand advice - however, I feel it generally results in bigger pots won rather than more pots won cause the game is so aggressive.

[BottlesOf]

I haven't read SSH. Damn Amazon. But, I'd say 30/60.

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi guys,

I'm just wondering, at what level on party/empire does Miller's SSH end and Ciaffone's "Middle Limit Hold'Em" begin?

[/ QUOTE ]

30/60

[AdamL]

Wow, I had no idea the games on Empire were that loose!

Thanks guys.

[AdamL]

Guys, I just watched the 30/60 game at Empire for about 45 minutes. These guys don't seem loose at all. The game seems fairly tight, often with it being folded around to the button for a blind steal. 3 handed flops seem big, with a lot of them being heads-up.

Did you mean that SSH applies in a way other than for beating a loose game?

[Bob T.]

I think what they are saying, is that pretty much all games on party play loosely some of the time. I think that a lot of concepts that could be applied in any game are also presented in the book.

If you think the ideas in the book only apply to loose passive games, then you might want to reread it.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[AdamL]

Bob,

That's a good point, thanks for reminding me. I wonder if the differences between Ciaffone and Miller's book should be noted as better for one type of game or another, even if both are applicable to both loose and tight alike.

You've pointed out that the ideas in the book apply to more than just loose games. Will there also be times when they really are more suitable for loose games, and some kind of adjustment should be made for a very tight game?

The 30/60 game I've been watching is one where some of the Ciaffone advice, which can differ slightly from the SSH philosophy, may be more suitable. Ciaffone is working on the principle that your opponents are all playing a solid game.

At some levels, that assumption gives the opponent too much credit. The 30-60 game I've been watching doesn't look like that'd be an issue. The game is very tight, for my untrained eyes.

Is there a level on Party where an obvious shift takes place, where Ciaffone's assumption of a competent opponent becomes highly important? I've heard 15-30 is a very different game than 5-10, but the most I've ever played is 2-4.

Thanks for your interest in helping me out.

Adam

[Bob T.]

I think the differences between the two books doesn't lie so much in how your opponents play, but in how the books try to teach you how to play the hands.

I think SSH is more of a theorhetical book, explaining what concepts you need to be thinking about, while MLH is more of an applications book, and talks more about exactly how you should react in different situations, and how each of the situations are a slightly different.

I also think that MLH is written for the game as it was played in the pre-travel channel era, while SSH, leans more toward how the game is being played after the television exposure and with the influx of internet players, who play a different flavor of the game than those who were introduced to the game in B&M cardrooms.

If you asked the other question, what limit is the lowest that MLH is applicable to, I would guess that it is somewhere around 1-2 online. I know that I read it while I was playing 2-4, and I thought that it helped my game a lot at that level. I pretty much think that all the good books will help you no matter what level you play.

If I had to limit myself to four poker books, the choice would be easy, HPFAP, TOP, SSH, and MLH.

Good luck,
play well,

Bob T.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
Guys, I just watched the 30/60 game at Empire for about 45 minutes. These guys don't seem loose at all. The game seems fairly tight, often with it being folded around to the button for a blind steal. 3 handed flops seem big, with a lot of them being heads-up.

Did you mean that SSH applies in a way other than for beating a loose game?

[/ QUOTE ]

i decided to take a look for myself tonight and this was the very first hand i saw, the very next hand the CO lost $500 JJ vs KK, and then proceeded to rebuy to $16,000. he is playing right now under the name "regulatex" and he is raising almost every single hand.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Flop: (1.50 SB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(9 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (1.75 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(9 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">CO bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">BB raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">CO 3-bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">BB caps</font>, CO calls.

River: (9.75 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(9 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">CO raises</font>, BB calls.

Final Pot: 13.75 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 13.75 BB, between , MP1, MP2, MP3, CO, Button, SB, BB and UTG.</font> &gt; <font color="white">Pot won by BB (13.75 BB).</font>

Results in white below: <font color="white">
BB shows Kc Ah (straight, ace high).
CO shows 2s 6s (one pair, tens).
Outcome: BB wins 13.75 BB. </font>

[Saborion]

Well, I'm a bit more weak than I'd like to be, but even I find much of the advice in MLHE a bit too weak/tight. It's a good read if you can keep that in mind while reading it.

[Nate tha' Great]

The 30/60 game usually is pretty tight. Not always though. But more to the point Ed's book contains some plain old good poker advice that applies in any game.