TT flops undercards--checkraise the turn?

[bdk3clash]

4-8 game in NYC. I'm making some donkey plays but am in a good mood.

I open-raise with T/images/graemlins/club.gifT/images/graemlins/heart.gif in EP. EP2 cold calls, MP dude 3-bets, blinds fold, I call, EP2 calls again.

The EP2 cold caller is way too loose preflop and is loose and passive postflop. MP is a normal looking dude but gets way out of hand a lot of the time. His range of 3-betting hands includes most pocket pairs, 2 Broadway, etc.

He doesn't get out of line every hand, but he does enough of the time that he could be holding a pretty wide range of hands even given his preflop 3-bet.

Anyway, 3 of us to the flop for 5 BBs/10 SBs.

Flop comes 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif4/images/graemlins/spade.gif4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

I check, EP2 checks, MP bets, I call, EP2 calls.

3 of us to the turn for 6.5 BBs.

Turn is (8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif4/images/graemlins/spade.gif4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif

I check, EP2 checks, MP bets, I raise...

Comments on my flop and turn play appreciated.

[Jonny Melon]

I like a C/R on the flop, just because you are vulnerable to overcards and want to knock EP2 out of this hand. He'll likely call with, say, KcQc, for one bet, but a raise will only give him 5:1 to call. If this was heads up with MP, I would like the play much better.

Given the flop play, I like the C/R on the turn.

[StellarWind]

Checkraise the flop.

The turn checkraise can end three ways:

1. He bets an overpair and you raise with two outs. Very bad.

2. He takes a free card with overcards. Also bad.

3. He bets overcards. Very good.

As you can see you are counting on a parlay. You need MP to bet the turn with a weaker hand. That won't happen too often.

You also lose money to EP2 if you let him draw cheaply to his overcards and then fold the turn when he misses. The flop checkraise is sufficient to protect your hand and you should go for it.

[sfer]

I checkraise the flop rather than the turn because I'd rather get 3-bet there.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm making some donkey plays but am in a good mood.


[/ QUOTE ]

Brad, you're always in a good mood at the table. That's why it's fun to play with you. That and the hilarious commentary.

[bdk3clash]

[ QUOTE ]
Brad, you're always in a good mood at the table. That's why it's fun to play with you. That and the hilarious commentary.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not always in a good mood at the table, but I almost always pretend to be in a good mood at the table. "Act as if..."

I do agree, though, that I am consistently hilarious.

Anyway, I checkraised the turn, EP2 called two cold and might as well have shown me his [censored] /images/graemlins/diamond.gifs, MP thought for a bit and called.

River was some tiny offsuit brick like the 2/images/graemlins/club.gif or 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif. I guess I have a moderately interesting river decision, but I figured "me have hand, me bet." I bet, EP2 folded, MP thought for a bit and called, and my heart sunk.

I showed my TT and told him I figured his pair was bigger than mine, but he tabled 66, and MHIG. /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

He told me he put me on an overpair or AK, so he had to call. I told him I'd play AK the same way, so he had to call. I think he believed me.

Anyway, just goes to show you that you can play like [censored] and still win a pot every now and then. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[WarmonkEd]

[ QUOTE ]
I checkraise the flop rather than the turn because I'd rather get 3-bet there.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm making some donkey plays but am in a good mood.


[/ QUOTE ]

Brad, you're always in a good mood at the table. That's why it's fun to play with you. That and the hilarious commentary.

[/ QUOTE ]

A flop c/r is less likely to protect your hand though and there are still 2 cards to come.

I like the way it was played.

[MoreWineII]

I love it when they "have to call"....err, sometimes. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[sfer]

You're also more likely to get re-popped by the preflop aggressor when you're behind.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Checkraise the flop.

The turn checkraise can end three ways:

1. He bets an overpair and you raise with two outs. Very bad.

2. He takes a free card with overcards. Also bad.

3. He bets overcards. Very good.

As you can see you are counting on a parlay. You need MP to bet the turn with a weaker hand. That won't happen too often.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent, excellent thought. Unless you know that the 3-bettor is unrelentingly laggy, you are going to get yourself in a lot of trouble by always waiting for the turn.

[WarmonkEd]

well yeah, sometimes you get 3-bet. So what? Often times it's worth the risk.

[SomethingClever]

Hey, I think you answered my question from this post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=913744&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1#913744) !

[me454555]

Why do you say less likely to protect you're hand? anyone w/a strait draw isnt going anywhere regardless of when you raise. Overcards and 4s are getting incorrect odds to draw. This seems like the perfect situation to checkraise.

[Garland]

I would have check-raised the flop and called down to any aggression after that. No one believes you have the 4...or 67.

Garland