J9s in the CO+1 3/6 party question

[pstripling]

typical 3/6 party table. Most players are loose passive preflop. MP3 is new player & posts BB. pstripling is in the CO+1

UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 (posted) checks, CO+1 pstripling calls (J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif), CO folds, button raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds (probably a bad fold as he is getting 10-1 to call), pstripling calls

5 players (11 sb)
Flop Q /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gifT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

everyone checks to me. I bet my straight flush draw.

Do you think the bet is a mistake here? I am inclined to bet because there are 2 possibilities I don't like.

1) the button checks giving everyone a free card. I like my draw here...maybe I am overplaying it since someone could have a FH already. No to mention the K that gives me a straight could fill someone up. The 9 could also, but I look at the king as a much worse card since it completes AJ as well. I think that my diamonds will be good if they hit unless the button is playing A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifx /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I think anyone who had a big diamond draw would open here so I feel good about the diamonds.

2) I don't want a situation where the button bets, and someone check raises and now I am calling 2 bets cold. I would rather lead and have the button either call or raise and play from there.

Results to follow.

[Joe Tall]

You should check to the button and depending on the number of callers 2 or more, check-raise when it comes back to you. A free card can't hurt you as you have no hand. You should feel very confident in your diamond draw as you are drawing to the 3rd nut.

Betting in front of the button will likely result in a raise and drive out potential overcallers driving down your equity with your monster-draw.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Bill Smith]

This is a monster draw. Overflushes are fairly rare, and you have 15 ways (about a 54% chance between the turn and river) to make a straight or better. Betting is not a mistake - it is a MUST. If even one person calls, you are getting value for your bet. If nobody calls, you drag a pot! This is a dream position.

On the flop, put as much money as you can into the pot - the percentages say it is in your favor to do so. If you miss on the turn or something hits and people play into you like crazy, use some discretion.

[Joe Tall]

Hello Bill,

Betting is not a mistake - it is a MUST. If even one person calls, you are getting value for your bet

He's betting into the mouth of a PFR. If the PFR will bet for him, he should check-raise. If he bets and PFR raises, he'll easily drive out all the players behind him. If he gets a free card from the PFR, so bet it.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Bill Smith]

Oh yeah... I missed that "Button raises" preflop. The "everyone checks to me" threw me off to think you were last to act. *sigh* Mornings suck.

The question now makes a lot more sense. I like the check now that I understand the situation.

[pstripling]

I was hoping to "buy" the button with my bet. Or what would have been really nice was if everyone would have folded as I don't have a hand yet. I know I'm a favorite to make a hand by the river so I really don't mind a raise here. If the button raises the flop and someone in EP calls it cold then I know I have just found the Q.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
If the button raises the flop and someone in EP calls it cold then I know I have just found the Q.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you don't.

[pstripling]

True but I will suspect that hand of the queen.

[pstripling]

5 players (11 sb) pstripling has J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and is in the CO+1, Button raised preflop. Flop was Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gifT /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Everyone has checked to pstripling, pstripling bets.

button folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds

well my bet worked ok IMO, if nothing more I bought position and probably a free turn card. I would like more callers here, I think.

2 players (6.5 BB)
Turn Card 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

UTG+1 checks, pstripling bets, UTG+1 takes a real long time and finally calls.

2 players (8.5 BB)
River: 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

UTG+1 checks, pstripling checks

UTG+1 shows K /images/graemlins/spade.gifT /images/graemlins/club.gif and MHIG

Did I play the river like a little girl?

[Joe Tall]

I know I'm a favorite to make a hand by the river so I really don't mind a raise here.

Why do you want to drive out all those potential overcallers? Since you are a favortie to make your hand, you want all those callers. On this board a raise will likely drive players out. Many hands may call for one bet like 55, Kx, A /images/graemlins/diamond.gifx, etc but unlikely for two cold.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Joe Tall]

Did I play the river like a little girl?

The correct term is 'Nancy-girl".

Peace,
Joe Tall

[MAxx]

You don't really care where the queen is on the flop (if its even out there at all), I wouldn't. What you are going for beats trips, at a minimum. Obviously you are worried bout the boat or filling up to a boat, but not just a queen.

Joe's line is perfect.

You have to bet river, Sally.

[mctommy015]

lets say he raises you on the river, do you 3-bet, or just call?

[Joe Tall]

you 3-bet, or just call?

You call.

Welcome to the forum,
Joe Tall

[Sarge85]

[ QUOTE ]
I was hoping to "buy" the button with my bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you need to "buy" the button here. I think you want the button when you have more speculative hands. You have a huge draw so I don't think you need to worry about position - you already know your going to the river with this hand. What you want to do is think of how many bets can you get other people to put in on the flop. Joe Tall as usually has superb advice.

Sarge/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[mctommy015]

ha, errr, sorry I didn't realize that the river was another 7. Here's a hand that happened yesterday with me (sorry, I can't seem to find the hand history) at Party 1/2.

I limp in in late position with QTs, 1 limper behind me, 5 to the flop. Flop comes KK6 with 2 of my suit. Checks to me, I bet, guy behind me calls, 1 other caller. Turn is a rag of my suit, giving me my flush. I bet, guy behind me calls. River is a rag, I bet, he comes alive and raises. Do I just call, or 3-bet?

[Joe Tall]

I limp in in late position with QTs, 1 limper behind me, 5 to the flop. Flop comes KK6 with 2 of my suit. Checks to me, I bet, guy behind me calls, 1 other caller. Turn is a rag of my suit, giving me my flush. I bet, guy behind me calls. River is a rag, I bet, he comes alive and raises. Do I just call, or 3-bet?

Raise preflop and raise the river.

Peace,
Joe Tall