My PokerTracker stuff

[cold_cash]

Just a quick question here --

What is the minimum number of hands I should have in my database before I unleash the relentless and overwhelming barrage of statistics so someone can (hopefully) tell me what the hell they all mean?

I know I don't have enough now, just wondering for future reference.

[bisonbison]

Your preflop stats are probably pretty accurate after about 10,000 hands.

Your postflop stats are probably worth discussing around 30k.

Your win-rate is worth mentioning at 50k.

Your learning curve is such that by the time you've played enough hands to deal with those last two, your game probably bears such little resemblance to when you started that you've got to start all over again.

That having been said, what's the worst thing that'll happen if you post? The sun will rise, I will make a condescending and vaguely unfair comment about your ancestry, education and hygeine, the sun will set. Another day in microlimits.

[cold_cash]

[ QUOTE ]
That having been said, what's the worst thing that'll happen if you post? The sun will rise, I will make a condescending and vaguely unfair comment about your ancestry, education and hygeine, the sun will set. Another day in microlimits.

[/ QUOTE ]

All good points, but I've never been a big fan of the "Analyze my play after 250 hands" posts, and almost positive you're not either.

It should also be noted that I spend a good deal of time trying to avoid the "working end" of your smart-assedness, which, due to it's enormous scope, is not always an easy task.

[bisonbison]

It should also be noted that I spend a good deal of time trying to avoid the "working end" of your smart-assedness, which, due to it's enormous scope, is not always an easy task.

I have a lot of love to give.

[bakku]

It should also be noted that I spend a good deal of time trying to avoid the "working end" of your smart-assedness, which, due to it's enormous scope, is not always an easy task.

I spend a good deal of time doing the opposite so I can tell bison to shut up.

[Peter Harris]

I just wanna say...

I love you guys.

x

[bisonbison]

I spend a good deal of time doing the opposite so I can tell bison to shut up.

Which is, honestly, why I enjoy playing with bakku so much, until he starts calling me "bison" in person. Then it's time for ethnic slurs.

I can tell you that the 2 Ks in bakku stand for kkool.

[Wahoo91]

Hi bison-
I noted that you registered at 2+2 in November 03 but really did not ramp up post production until January 04, giving you an average of 361 posts per month, or 12 per day for 7.5 months straight. You are inhuman! I did note that your posts, right from the get-go, have been very good, unlike most posters, including me, who have stumbled across this site as I begin my poker "career".

Anyway keep up the good work. How long do you think the steam will last?

[cold_cash]

He's got enough hot air to last quite awhile.

Zing!!

(I rule.)

[DMBFan23]

nice avatar. I just graduated from there, May '03.

go hoos.

***official thread hijack attempt...woot

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
Your preflop stats are probably pretty accurate after about 10,000 hands.

Your postflop stats are probably worth discussing around 30k.

Your win-rate is worth mentioning at 50k.

Your learning curve is such that by the time you've played enough hands to deal with those last two, your game probably bears such little resemblance to when you started that you've got to start all over again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Serious question: Isn't this a major argument against bothering with PT?

I downloaded the free version and played with it a little bit, but I never could figure out how to get my hand histories out of gmail into a format PT would read. (They discuss how to convert from web-based mail for hotmail and yahoo, but not gmail obviously, and I keep getting a series of error messages whenever I do manage to get the text broken into lines).

So in addition to being a major headache to use, I'm not sure that my PT stats would really be all that terribly valuable anyway because it will be months (6+) before I reach anything close to 50k hands at my current rate of play.

If I were planning on earning a second (or primary) income from poker, I can see where the fine-tuning you might get from PT might be worthwhile. But for somebody who just plays for entertainment, it seems like a lot of work for very little reward.

Comments?

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
But for somebody who just plays for entertainment, it seems like a lot of work for very little reward.

Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it's not a lot of work. It's pretty easy to get your hand histories entered, even if you have to do it by hand.

And even if your numbers aren't rock solid, you can get a pretty good sense about which opponents are decent, and which are total maniacs. Good to know at the micro level.

I can't speak to playing for entertainment... I enjoy playing, but I'm trying to win as much money as I can while I'm at it.

[CLC]

Did you contact Pat on the Poker Tracker Forum about importing hand histories. He may be able to help.

Bisons' numbers for analyzing stats are probably a little inflated. While it may be true that any SERIOUS data inperpretation may take mass quantities of hands, you can notice tendencies with far fewer hands.

If you play 2,000 hands ....

... And have a VP$IP of 37% you can determine that you are either seeing too many flops or getting GOOD cards.
... And find that you are losing a lot with medium pairs you can determine that you should pay more attention to that area.
... And find that you go to showdown 50% of the time and win 25% of the time, you can determine that your hand selection may need improvement.

Even at lower numbers of hands, there is much that can be trended if you just pay attention and try to make minor adjustments to improve your game. Periodically looking at the data and comparing it over time can reveal things that help point you in a positive direction. The main thing is that you cannot make any ABSOLUTE determinations until there is sufficient information available, and that does take a while.

[bisonbison]

you registered at 2+2... post production ... average of... per day... You are inhuman!

...How long do you think the steam will last?

I dunno. When I get a job I like or find a lady friend of enduring affection, I imagine these forums will see a bit less of the bison who poops upon the tired, the poor, the huddled masses yearning to post threads about bad beats and win rates after 800 hands.

[Wahoo91]

Hey DMB-
I graduated in 1991 (hence Wahoo91, lol). I see you are in Arlington, I am in Vienna. What sites are you playing on? I think maybe we have played, I will have to check PT when I get home tonight.

[Wahoo91]

Great reply CLC-
I only have about 5k hands in PT but like you said, you can see trends right away that may be affecting play. I really like the hand replay function with "show cards" marked so I can see what people had and what they were thinking when they were betting.

The thing that has helped me the most early on (I started tight with VPIP= 16%) was agression (or more accurately lack of). PT had me around 0.7 (passive). I realized from that, and from reading the posts here that I has tight-weak. After spending some time here (seeing bison and others beat up on tight-weak players) and reading SSH (and studying Ed's posts here), I have upped my agression to about 1.6.

That change has changed my game completely, including win rate and "table feel" for lack of a better word. Poker has become even more fun with agression at that level, with tight starting hand requirements.

There is so much more in PT that is useful its hard to know what else to talk about. The best money ever spent (along with SSH, WLLH, and Matthew Hilger's internet poker book)

Anyway, my 2-cents...

[bakku]

[ QUOTE ]
He's got enough hot air to last quite awhile.

Zing!!

(I rule.)

[/ QUOTE ]


No. You rock. And if you don't get this phrase right CDC will be taking all your money at the 2+2 table tomorrow.

[cold_cash]

It's inevitable that one of you hoseheads will do it, it may as well be Chris.

Be warned, however, that I'm going to bring my weak-tight "A game" this time. Not only am I going to play AA and KK, tomorrow I'm going put QQ into the mix. My goal is to break the 2% mark for flops seen.

Buckle up.

[radek2166]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a lot of love to give.

[/ QUOTE ]

Man I can feel the love in here!

[DMBFan23]

I play mostly on Absolute, .25/.5 and .5/1. let me know if I'm in your PT, I want to see how weak tight I am. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Girazze]

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

You seem knowledgeable about PT. I just started keeping track of my ring games but am unable to get them into PT. It finds the email and imports it but it doesn't show up in my ring game category. Anything special I need to do or not do to make this work? It works fine with my tourneys, just not ring games.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/cool.gif

You seem knowledgeable about PT. I just started keeping track of my ring games but am unable to get them into PT. It finds the email and imports it but it doesn't show up in my ring game category. Anything special I need to do or not do to make this work? It works fine with my tourneys, just not ring games.

[/ QUOTE ]

party emails are fluked right now.. check them manually. does it list the blinds or betting/raising actions?

[Blarg]

Yeah, Pat is aware of the problem, and there is a post on the Pokertracker forum about it. Unfortunately, Pat can't do anything about it, because the problem is that Party is sending histories with randomly missing pieces -- bets, blinds, whatever. You can open them up in notebook or whatever and see for yourself.

I suggest we all give Party hell about it. A flood of e-mails sometimes gets companies to take these things more seriously. And it's a pretty serious matter, where tax returns are concerned.