why did I...? online 10/20

[nykenny]

OK, i don't do this all the time, not even remotely semi-frequent by the most passive standard. however, I did and it felt right. what do you think?

background: wild and sometimes good (most of the time) online 10/20 6 max.

thus far: I am in the middle of 8 tables and took some beats after only 15 minutes into the game. i played and will continue to tight. i am somewhat aggressive. i change gear a lot and fast (for better or worse). ...

preflop: I get Q /images/graemlins/spade.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif in the SB and all folds to me I raise. BB calls.

flop: K /images/graemlins/spade.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif, I bet and BB raises. I call. (why?)

turn: 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif, I check, BB bets, and I almost-turbo raise. BB thinks for less an second and folds.

Why did I do it? Also please keep in mind that since my memory might not serve well, this BB could actually be a MLP limper /images/graemlins/laugh.gif. Sorry for this uncertainty, but my play would have been the same.

Kenny

[Nate tha' Great]

See also Schneids' post in the shorhanded forum. It's almost impossible in this game to represent enough strength to push somebody off a hand on the flop, so you almost have to wait until the turn if you're planning to bluff(*). Whether you can time your opportunities well enough to make bluffing a profitable part of your game, I don't know.

(*) It's also entirely possible that you had the best hand.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
It's almost impossible in this game to represent enough strength to push somebody off a hand on the flop, so you almost have to wait until the turn if you're planning to bluff(*).

[/ QUOTE ]

agree. and at the time of the hand, i ABSOLUTELY couldn't put him on a real hand here. whatever hand he had his play made no sense, period. I believe in many headsup situation, on a K22 rainbow board, the in position will ALMOST NEVER raise on the flop with a real hand (ie. Kx, 2x). plus i didn't give him any good starting hand anyway. that's why i went with my read.

[ QUOTE ]
(*) It's also entirely possible that you had the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

entirely possible. in these games, people LOVE to pull stone cold bluffs headsup on a "protected board" that they perceive as discouraging to their opponent (ME) for playing back.

Kenny

[Senor Choppy]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe in many headsup situation, on a K22 rainbow board, the in position will ALMOST NEVER raise on the flop with a real hand (ie. Kx, 2x).

[/ QUOTE ]

No one ever fast plays either of these on the flop knowing that opponents operate on that specific assumption? Considering how little people respect flop raises in SH games, it seems unlikely to me that people don't fast play situations like this for balance purposes.

[SaintAces]

just wonderin

[Steve Giufre]

[ QUOTE ]
See also Schneids' post in the shorhanded forum. It's almost impossible in this game to represent enough strength to push somebody off a hand on the flop, so you almost have to wait until the turn if you're planning to bluff(*).

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. But it's not easy to get these guys to lay down on the turn either in most of the interent games you are talking about. I dont see all that many players betting and folding to a raise on the turn very often. Most of them make you turn over your hand if they have anything reasonable to show down. So, there are a lot more thin value betting oppertunities since players seem to be overly paranoid of getting moved off the best hand.

I make very few moves in that 15-30 Party game. It's difficult to lead at ragged flops from EP, raise a turn with a draw, bluff raise the river, etc, because these guys live to call down and snap off bluffs. In Kenny's situation I dont think his play was all that bad since it would be very unlikely (but not impossible) that the SB would play a K or a 2 like that, and the he would probably raise preflop with a small pair or decent ace most of the time. But overall I think a lot of those moves are more harmful than anything else, in that particular game.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
But overall I think a lot of those moves are more harmful than anything else, in that particular game.


[/ QUOTE ]
agree. anyone who makes these moves more than once in a session gets into my fish list /images/graemlins/laugh.gif. i was doing it partly for balancing reasons too.

Kenny

[Ulysses]

Silly -EV play in this game. A King raises the flop here all the time.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
i was doing it partly for balancing reasons too.


[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? What do you mean by "balancing reasons" Kenny? This makes no sense to me.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i was doing it partly for balancing reasons too.


[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? What do you mean by "balancing reasons" Kenny? This makes no sense to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

i play very tight (or i think) and i give up many hands to aggression on the flop or turn. to balance the "he folds everytime he misses", i play back on occassions when i see the opportunity is right.

Kenny

[Lawrence Ng]

How is it -EV to not c/r the turn, and instead should reraise the flop.

It is heads up, short handed. Aggresion rules. Aggresion is +EV. C/R the turn = aggression.