Flopped nut straight, lots of callers

[CostaRicaBill]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks,

Flop: (7 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Mmmm, dream flop...But MP3 bets out, I didn't really want to raise and loose everyone but I didn't know if a slowplay would be correct either. Thinking about it, I probably should have raised expecting some to call 2 cold with gutshots and middle/bottom pairs.

Turn: (7 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP3 calls.

Should I have just called here again? I didn't want a Q or a T to hit and have to split the pot, much less another heart, so I went ahead and raised.

River: (13 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP3 folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">UTG+1 caps</font>, Hero calls.

This was an unexpected little treat from UTG+1, but what do you think about my flop and turn play?

Final Pot: 21 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 21 BB, between Hero and UTG+1.</font>

[Trix]

I would have raised the flop. They are more likely to coldcall there and get trapped.

[jayrutz2]

I think you have to raise. I put MP3 on a Gut draw or big pair and UTG probably Ks or Js (with a 5 suited?) or KJ "slow playing". Although you probably win more the way you played it given the gift you get at the river from UTG

[CostaRicaBill]

Almost Jay, he had K /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif and decided to go buck wild on the river with two-pair /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[cnfuzzd]

Interesting situation. I was leaning towards slowplaying, but the more i think about it the more i like raising. In order to slowplay, i would want the pot to be slightly bigger, and i want to have a virtual lock on the *whole* pot. Chances are someone has at least a pair with a backdoor flush draw, and someone *else* probably has some sort of draw to split with you. So if you slowplay, you will probably get at least one more caller than raising, but you risk losing at least half the pot. However, since this flop is likely to touch so many hands, i think you can raise here and many hands are likely to call you. KJ, AT, blah blah blah. These are the types of hands that are drawing to a small number of outs, or runners, and dont know it, so they will think you are betting their hands for them. Might as well oblige and start charging them now.

peace

john nickle

[DiceyPlay]

I think you played that perfectly. There's no immediate flush draw on the flop. The fact that nobody raised or check-raised seems indicative of everyone being on a draw or catching some piece of the flop. I think you want to slow play hoping that someone will improve to a hand you still beat. It's too bad the bettor is sitting on your immediate right. The raise on the turn I think is perfect. It causes everyone to define their hand. If it didn't come one of the suits already on board, I may have just called again. On the river, your card comes in ... someone has made two pair and they go hog wild.

I think the thing to ask yourself on the flop is "do any of these guys limp with AK, AJ, or KJ? Maybe AJ or KJ. But it they have any of those 3 or a set don't they raise the flop fearing the inside straight draw? I would say yes. But the flop went unraised, so now you're only worried about the bettor. There's no flush to worry about on the flop ... so you slow play hoping one of them will improve to a second best worthy of raising the river with.

This does backfire sometimes and you lose to runner runner flush or full house ... but I think the times you win a BIG pot way outweighs the times you get drawn out on and the draws probably aren't going to fold to your raise anyways ... definitely not on internet holdem.

[jayrutz2]

See, I said K or J (with a 5 suited /images/graemlins/smile.gif)!!!!

Nice win!

[Kaz The Original]

Great flop play.

[nothumb]

Here's how I look at your turn play:

If you smooth-call the turn and EVERYONE overcalls, you get 5 BB.

As it is, you raised and got 5 BB on the turn ( 2 cold calls and the original bettor ). And we all know that everyone who misses on the river won't pay off, so I think it's good.

NT

[buhler26]

I like the play on the flop and turn, although raising certainly wouldn't have been a bad play.

What does everyone think about raising before the flop? You have several limpers already and they will probably all come along for the flop. YOu've got a good hand for a multiway pot, and raising will create a big pot. Just a thought. Nice hand.

[PokerNoob]

I struggle with raising hands like this preflop, and as a default I don't, but I'm not sure what the correct play is and how "good" my hand has to be for it to be correct to raise x number of limpers from the button with suited connectors or gappers. A QTs is pretty marginal as far as its high card value goes. You can flop a decent hand, but without an additional flush draw and/or straight draw I would be afraid of pushing it. No doubt that building a big pot that you have to chase increases variance. On the other hand, the loose passive cast of characters may "check to the raiser" throughout the hand even outkicking you so it may not cost that much to bet and be called down when losing.

[Garland]

I'd rather raise the flop than the turn because that will knock people out. Overcalls on the turn! And I'd probably just call the flop on this rainbow board.

The river is where I'd start the raising war.

Garland

[Joe Tall]

Must raise preflop. Capitolize on your opponents preflop mistakes and raise. Build yourself a big pot when you hit.

Calling the flop is fine but with so many others calling, and the better to your right, call the turn and collect overcalls. You are losing bets by raising here.

Peac

[WalleyeJason]

I dont mind a raise preflop with this hand but its not a play I make all the time.

I need a good read on the table and it also has good advertising value.

check this post

QTs (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=497785&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;sb=5&amp;o =&amp;fpart=1&amp;vc=1)

WalleyeJason

[Louie Landale]

If the pair of Jacks or the stiff T is going to call the raise then without a doubt you should raise. Calling, hehehe, only makes sense if these hands will call one bet but not two. That means that if nobody who isn't drawing to beat you will call even a single bet, you don't gain much by slow-playing.

On the turn. Well, now you just gotta raise and are sure to lose everyone who isn't drawing to beat you. Lets back up. If you had raised the flop you would now be betting and these hands that are NOT drawing to beat you, such as A2, are going to call. This player may call 4sb if you raise the flop and bet the turn; wherease your slow play lets him off cheap for 1sb. The slow play because the better is on your right cost money from folks drawing dead.

Now lets say the opponent has AJ. If you slow play he's unlikely to 3-bet the turn because HEY! you slow-played. But if you raise the flop he may call, hehehe, figuring to check-raise you on the turn. Cha Ching. That's 2sb+3bb from this player, which is a lot more than the 1sb+2bb you get from the slowplay.

Also, many players especially at the low limits like to call on the flop and not the turn. Bet while the calling is good.

Best advise is this: in the loose low-limits, never slow-play unless you can think of a good compelling reason not to. "I've got a straight flush" is not a good compelling reason. If the first player bets and gets 4 calls, raise with your straight flush.

Now if you have that straight flush and the RHO bets, you DO have a compelling reason to slowplay because only the most determined folks are going to call a double flop bet with a 3-flush 3-straight on board. Those situations are, IMO, very rare.

Raise it up, bet it out, show it down.

- Louie