T8s on button

[Chris Daddy Cool]

loose, very passive table, no real reads because I'm concentrating on my 10/20 and 400 NL games

UB .25/.50

4 limpers to me on the button. I call with T /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif SB and BB call. 7 to the flop for 14 sb.

Flop: 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif

SB checks. BB bets. UTG calls. UTG+1 folds. MP raises. CO folds. I coldcall. SB folds. BB calls. UTG calls. 4 to the turn for 15 BB

Turn: 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif

BB bets. UTG raises. MP calls. 20-2 call for. According to SSH my break-even point is 10.5-1, whats my action?

[cartoonsoldier]

Raise..?

[SteveY]

[ QUOTE ]
4 limpers to me on the button. I call with T /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif SB and BB call. 7 to the flop for 14 sb.


[/ QUOTE ]

14 SB?

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
BB bets. UTG raises. MP calls. 20-2 call for. According to SSH my break-even point is 10.5-1, whats my action?

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I like calling. Sometimes passivity is the proper path to take and the pot is too big to fold espesically considering you may even have the best hand.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

My bad. Somebody in this hand raised preflop. Either the SB or BB methinks.

[SteveY]

I think you should only be worried about UTG hperking up on the turn. Since it's a passive table, I don't think BB is on a stopngo slowplay. So I thnk you can coldcall safely without being worried about having to put in more bets in on the turn. I think there's a reasonable enough chance that you're drawing here that stops me from raising.

[skierdude1000]

I would raise the flop in such a big pot. If you read SSH, you'd know you had a gutshot flush, gutshot strait draw, any 10, any 8 would give you probably the best hand

I would say you had 8 outs on the flop as an estimate, which is definately a spot to raise

[Brian]

Hi Chris,

I cold-call again on the Turn. You're getting the odds to fill up alone, because I doubt there will be a 3-bet from BB. He's probably stop-n-going with an overpair. Theres also a fair chance you have MP beat. And 3-betting seems a little dumb. So I'd call.

When I first read the post, I thought there hadn't been a raise pre-Flop, and I was about to respond saying to fold the Flop. Lets just pretend there hadn't been a raise pre-Flop, but the same action happened on the Flop. Am I the only one who folds this? I haven't gotten my copy of SSH yet, but it seems that a lot of people are now clinging too tightly to top pair, especially in small pots. If there hadn't been a raise pre-Flop, you'd be getting 5.5:1 to call the Flop, with a chance that you are ahead, but not many outs if you are behind to a Ten with a better kicker. I mean, I'm just not very happy with top pair and a lousy kicker when BB leads, theres a call, and then someone raises.

Of course, with the pot being larger on the Flop, I think that you played your hand well.

-Brian

[Chris Daddy Cool]

Hey Brian,

In my post, I got the action wrong and there was indeed a raise from the blinds.

But suppose that there was no raise preflop, I don't feel particularily comfortable with coldcalling in such a small pot, but I think a call would still be correct (albiet barely) with my backdoor flush and backdoor straight potential along with my two pair outs (another ten on the board would probably be bad) and I'd calculate something like 5 outs perhaps (3 8's, 1.5 for the backdoor flush and lets say 0.5 outs for the backdoor straight).

5-1 on a 5.5-1 call is pretty close but still worth a call, albiet barely.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
5-1 on a 5.5-1 call is pretty close but still worth a call, albiet barely.

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5 outs is 42-5 or just over 8-1 ... you need a lot more than 5-1 to call here.