Common sucky situation...

[cold_cash]

Being in this spot pretty much sucks, and for me it's one of the most uncomfortable situations to be confronted with.

I know there's no "standard" approach to it, and I'm not looking for magical answers. I'm just wondering how you guys play this, or exactly what you look for, when you're up against an unknown opponent.

(I'm sure this situation is dealt with in a few books, so if you just want to tell me to go read one, that's fine. I just thought I would put this out there and maybe pick your brains a bit.)

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, Hero raises, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, <font color="666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls, UTG+2 calls

Flop: (9.50 SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="CC3333">UTG+2 bets</font>, Hero...

Since there aren't too many draws available with this flop, should I give him credit for a King and toss it in?

The pot is sizeable, but I don't want to pay off with a 2-outer the whole way, and there are still people behind me, yet rolling over and playing dead seems weak, too.

Should I be raising instead? I know a read on UTG+2 would be incredibly useful, but I don't have one.

[rjc199]

Yeah, this situation happens 5 times each session. Somebody post.

What I usually do is raise. If 3-bet or bet into on the turn I'm dropping.

[BigEndian]

Mandatory raise against players that aren't a lock-cinch to only bet top pair here (pretty easy to read this live, online is much tougher).

Whether to bet or check through on later streets has a lot to do with how the raise affected the crowd and what kind of opponent.

- Jim

[Garland]

With 5 players in the pot and no draws on board, you should probably give him credit for at least a K, especially since he's betting from a vulnerable early position.

It's your choice. I'd probably dump it here, but if you feel the others will come along for one bet, you might peel one off to see if you can hit the 10 (and hope no one is peeling for the QJ straight!).

Garland

[nepenthe]

Without a read on the flop bettor I'm inclined to fold and save my money. There are no flush or plausible straight draws on board, and he's betting into everyone. He might have a middle pair or a pocket pair, but a King with crap kicker seems likely. If he's a thinking player he might be betting with a marginal hand hoping you'd raise to and knock out everyone else, so as to give him the best chance to win the hand.

Given this is Party 2/4, he's probably not that kind of player. At the same time, Party 2/4ers love to take shots at the preflop raiser with crap. So without a read this is difficult to answer.

All other things unknown, I'd let it go, with raising being my second choice.

[cold_cash]

Thanks for the responses guys.

It turns out that I did fold this one to the flop bet, and UTG+2 eventually took it down without a showdown. It just felt really weak tight, and I wanted to make sure it wasn't. Against a smaller field or with better position I like to think I would have played it differently.

[MarkD]

First time I have seen this thread but this is another one of those situations that I wish got more attention on these forums as it's tough. Much tougher online than it is live.

I'd fold sometimes and raise other times but I can't make a strong case for either one of them as a general line. In this exact hand I would probably fold, but I see strong arguments for raising. The primary one that the bet appears as if it wants to get raised which leads me to beleive it's a weak hand wanting protection and the most likely hand to do this is a 9. I do find myself raising more and more in this spot lately.

Yup, tough spot to be in that we get into a fair amount. I wish I was more confident in this situation.

[TheHip41]

My standard line against a normal player would be to raise. If I raise, and get two cold callers, and the bettor just calls me, I'm done with this hand unless i spike a 10. Someone has a K, I just don't know who.

So if I get bet into, and raised, and everyone folds, and the bettor just calls, I bet any blank on the turn. If he calls, I check the river.

Now, if he three bets, I call, and muck the turn unimproved. This is all alot easier if you know the player.

Derek

[cnfuzzd]

i think this is one of those few situations where you can raise for information, perhaps also bluffing out a weaker king behind you, and perhaps getting a nice free card if you do get called. I think the options here go, without reads, raise, fold, call.

peace

john nickle